IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
DALLAS DIVISION
NETSPHERE, ET AL. ( Number 3: 09-CV-0988-F
Plaintiff, (
(
vs. (
(
(
JEFFREY BARON, ET AL. (
Defendant. ( January 4, 2011
__________________________________________________________
Hearing on Motion to Vacate Order Appointing Receivership
Before the Honorable Royal Furgeson
__________________________________________________________
A P P E A R A N C E S:
For the Plaintiff: JOHN W. MACPETE
LOCKE LORD BISSELL & LIDDELL LLP
2200 Ross, Suite 2200
Dallas, TX 75201
Phone: 214/740-8662
Email: jmacpete@lockelord.com
RAVI PURI
ATTORNEY AT LAW
1300 Bristol Street North, Suite 200
Newport Beach, California 92260
Work: (949) 756-2446
For the Receiver: BARRY M. GOLDEN
GARDERE WYNNE SEWELL
1601 Elm Street, Suite 3000
Dallas, TX 75201-4761
Phone: 214/999-4746
Email: bgolden@gardere.com
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As Receiver: PETER S. VOGEL
GARDERE WYNNE SEWELL
1601 Elm Street, Suite 3000
Dallas, TX 75201-4761
Phone: 214/999-4422
Email: pvogel@gardere.com
For Jeffrey Baron: PETER MICHAEL BARRETT
LAW OFFICE of PETER BARRETT
3500 Oak Lawn Avenue, Suite 700
Dallas, TX 75219
Phone: 214/526-0555
Email: peter@barrettcrimelaw.com
GARY N. SCHEPPS
SCHEPPS LAW OFFICES
Drawer 670804
Dallas, TX 75367
Phone: 214/210-5940
Email: legal@schepps.net
For Daniel Sherman, Chapter 11 Trustee:
RAYMOND J. URBANIK
DENNIS ROOSSIEN
RICHARD HUNT
UFA UFOTUMANA
MUNSCH HARDT KOPF & HARR PC
3800 Lincoln Plaza
500 N. Akard Street
Dallas, TX 75201
Phone: 214/855-7590
Email: rurbanik@munsch.com
Also appearing:
SIDNEY BENNETT CHESNIN
LAW OFFFICE of SIDNEY B. CHESNIN
4841 Tremont, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75246
Email: schesnin@hotmail.com
GERRIT PRONSKE
ATTORNEY AT LAW
1700 Pacific Avenue, Suite 2260
Dallas, Texas 75201
Phone: 214-658-6501
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GARY GENE LYON
LAW OFFICE of GARY G. LYON
PO Box 1227
Anna, TX 75409
Phone: 972/977-7221
Email: glyon.attorney@gmail.com
DEAN FURGESON
ATTORNEY AT LAW
4715 Breezy Point Drive
Houston, Texas 77345
Phone: 281-361-9103
Reported by Cassidi L. Casey
United States District Court Reporter
1100 Commerce Street, 14th Floor
Dallas, Texas 75242
Phone: 214-354-3139
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
THE COURT: Mr. Frye, if you will call the case.
MR. FRYE: 3:09-CV-0988-F, Jeff Netsphere versus
Jeffrey Baron, et al.
MR. GOLDEN: Good morning, Barry Golden, counsel
for the receiver along with receiver, Peter S. Vogel.
THE COURT: Announcements for Mr. Baron.
MR. SCHEPPS: Good morning, your Honor. Gary
Schepps and Jeffrey Barrett, appellate counsel for
Mr. Baron.
THE COURT: Good morning.
MR. SCHEPPS: Thank you very much.
THE COURT: Let's see if we have Mr. Tom Jackson
and Mr. Joseph Cox for Quantec Tech or Novo Point.
MR. GOLDEN: Barry Golden again. I spoke with
Mr. Jackson yesterday, and he advised me at the end of the
last hearing he was excused and didn't believe that he
needed to be here today, and we don't have any issues that
I'm fighting with Mr. Jackson over.
THE COURT: Okay. Great. That's perfect. By
the way, the receiver has filed a request to reimburse
Mr. Cox.
MR. GOLDEN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: That's Mr. Joshua Cox representing
Quantec, Novo Point?
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MR. GOLDEN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Explain to me just a minute.
MR. GOLDEN: In the receiver order, it states
the receiver can retain professionals, including
attorneys, for the purposes of the receivership. What we
have done is retained Mr. Cox as well as Mr. Eckels, and
at some point we're going to finalize a couple of the
other Quantec and Novo Point LLC employees and make them
receiver professionals. This way, before we pay them we
will be filing fee aps. We're doing this to make sure
there is transparency with regard to the money we're
disbursing.
THE COURT: I think after the last hearing they
made the receiver aware that Quantec and Novo Point funds
are available.
MR. GOLDEN: Yes, what we have now is a joint
access account so that Mr. Harbin, who's the manager of
Quantec and Novo Point -- he has access as well as the
receiver and receiver's counsel. So what we would propose
is that Mr. Cox and Mr. Eckels, those are the two
attorneys for Novo Point and -- the receiver professionals
who are current or former attorneys for Quantec and Novo
Point -- we have asked them to be paid, and we have
requested that they be paid out of one of the two accounts
that are physically for Quantec and Novo Point, the
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company bank accounts.
THE COURT: I do have the order for Mr. Joshua
Cox. Is there a motion for anyone else, Mr. Golden?
MR. GOLDEN: The one we filed yesterday, your
Honor, for Mr. James Eckels.
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. SCHEPPS: Your Honor, we object to the Court
proceeding on these receiver motions for expense
reimbursement for receiver professionals.
THE COURT: Thank you very much, sir.
MR. SCHEPPS: Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay. Then I'll look at the other
ones before me.
MR. GOLDEN: And to be clear, your Honor, for
those I think -- I'm not sure how we phrased it in the
motion, and we can pencil the order how we need to, but
those monies for Mr. Eckels and Mr. Cox we believe should
come from the Compass Bank accounts which are the LLC
accounts as opposed to Mr. Baron's personal accounts.
THE COURT: If perhaps you will redo the orders
for me. Because that's not clear in the order.
MR. GOLDEN: We will do that, and at a break I
will hand them to you, your Honor.
THE COURT: That would be great. Thank you very
much. Okay. For the trustee.
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MR. ROOSSIEN: Dennis Roossien for the Trustee.
My partners Ray Urbanik, Richard Hunt and Ufa Ufotumana.
And the trustee Mr. Sherman is also here.
THE COURT: I have you, Mr. Roossien,
Mr. Urbanik and Mr. Hunt and Mr. Ufotumana, and of course,
the trustee Mr. Sherman.
MR. MACPETE: Good morning, your Honor. Happy
New Year. John MacPete. And on the phone is Ravi Puri
for Netsphere.
THE COURT: Mr. Puri, spell your first name for
me.
MR. PURI: R-a-v-i.
THE COURT: Mr. Puri making an appearance here?
Is he your cocounsel?
MR. MACPETE: He is an attorney, your Honor, but
he's not intending to speak as counsel. He's basically
the client representative.
THE COURT: The court reporter needs his address
and information. You'll get that to her, right?
MR. MACPETE: Do you mind if I send it to Kevin
and he can forward it on?
THE COURT: That will be fine and Kevin can
help, too. Anyone else here for appearance today?
MR. FERGUSON: Dean Ferguson here on behalf of
myself, former attorney for Mr. Baron.
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THE COURT: Anyone else here? Is Mr. Baron here
this morning?
MR. SCHEPPS: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: So if he were to be called as a
witness, he would not be available? Is that what I
understand?
MR. SCHEPPS: He doesn't appear on any witness
list, your Honor.
THE COURT: If I were to call him as a witness
he would not be available to me?
MR. SCHEPPS: Yes, we could have him here.
THE COURT: Okay. Good.
MR. SCHEPPS: If the Court so desires.
THE COURT: I may consider that at some point in
the hearing.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, I would mention in
that regard that Mr. Baron was directed to be here on the
17th as that matter was continued. I assumed that matter
remained in force. I'm very surprised he's not here.
THE COURT: Normally, I expect parties to the
case to be present. I don't know why that would not be
the case here.
MR. SCHEPPS: I believe he wasn't feeling well
this morning, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, maybe he can feel better this
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afternoon.
MR. SCHEPPS: Maybe he would feel better this
afternoon, and if he's needed, we have a way to reach him.
THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Roossien. Okay. One
of the first orders of business before we begin the
presentation is the -- I do have lots of documents in
front of me. I also have Mr. Vogel's application for
reimbursement of fees of the receiver and the firm Gardere
Wynne. I do have the application for Mr. Eckels. And we
have to talk about the application under seal.
We have to talk about the letter I received
yesterday from Mr. Thomas about his representation of
Mr. Baron in bankruptcy.
I have the motion for order confirming propriety
of fund management that we will have to take up. I also
want to talk about the Trustee's request that I take
judicial notice, and that's basically that I take judicial
notice of all of the lawsuits that have been -- all the
attorneys that have been involved in all the lawsuits for
Mr. Baron. Yes, Mr. Roossien.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Yes, your Honor, we have tendered
a set of exhibits. They were actually the set of exhibits
that we attached to our response sometime ago now. And
they are either pleadings from this Court, pleadings from
other courts or there are a few that summarize things that
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are of record in various courts, and so our request is
that the Court take judicial notice of those. I'm
prepared to do that in due course in the case when we get
there.
THE COURT: Excellent.
MR. SCHEPPS: We object to the Court taking
judicial notice of the lawsuits because they are not
relevant to these proceedings, and we also object to the
Court taking judicial notice of the exhibits attached to
the response to our motion to vacate or stay.
THE COURT: Well, you will have an opportunity
to do that when they are presented through the testimony.
MR. SCHEPPS: Also, we would like to reurge our
objection to the Court taking up any matters of the
receiver motions for reimbursement or fund management
because Mr. Lyon is not representing Mr. Baron. And the
Court is taking his money and said he can't hire an
attorney, and he has nobody representing him with respect
to the receiver's motions. I'm only here on the very
narrow issue for the appeal, and I'm appearing under Rule
8(a) of the Federal Rules of appellate procedure. So Mr.
Baron does not have any anybody representing him with
respect to the motions that are made, and we believe by
looking at the motions that came through on PACER that the
receiver is attempting to commingle Mr. Baron's personal
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funds and personal assets with corporate assets to where
he's only the beneficiary of certain trusts that own other
LLC's and corporations, and he has no representation with
respect to that.
THE COURT: It sounds like to me you are
representing him with respect to that.
MR. SCHEPPS: No, I'm not. I'm only here on the
very narrow issue of motion to vacate and stay. I'm only
pointing out what came through the filings in the last few
days.
THE COURT: Mr. Baron made no application to me
to have counsel for these matters.
MR. SCHEPPS: Mr. Lyon is supposed to be
representing him, but Mr. Lyon has sent an e-mail
correspondence to Mr. Baron over Christmas and said that
he's specifically not representing him in any matters
other than with respect to the global settlement. The
Court has taken his money. He doesn't have a lawyer, and
the receiver has made a bunch of motions concerning
Mr. Baron's money, and he doesn't have an attorney to
represent him on that.
THE COURT: We have counsel who just entered the
courtroom.
Mr. Lyon, how are you?
MR. LYON: I got stuck on the train. I
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apologize to the Court.
THE COURT: Mr. Lyon, I'm being told by
Mr. Schepps that your representation of Mr. Baron is
limited in some way
MR. LYON: That's correct. Last time I thought
my appearance was here just to complete the settlement
agreement out of the bankruptcy court because when the
trustee got the documents one of the documents was an
order dismissing this matter. I signed that document at
that time assuming this thing was going to be completed
pretty quickly. Obviously, it was not. And at that point
in time I had not been paid for the longest period of
time. I was here just to complete the settlement
agreement. I'm willing to withdraw at this time. I'm not
being paid. It keeps costing me time and money to come
down here.
THE COURT: I understand that.
MR. MACPETE: As you may remember, at the end of
the last hearing Mr. Lyon brought up the issue of it was
his signature and maybe we could have Mr. Baron have
someone to sign a new one and, your Honor wanted Mr. Lyon
to stay on being counsel of record so the original
dismissal order he signed would still be good.
MR. LYON: Your Honor, I'm at the mercy of this
Court. Whatever the Court wishes to do. I'm here at the
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Court's favor.
THE COURT: I appreciate that.
MR. URBANIK: Your Honor, as you probably are
aware, the bankruptcy approved the big settlement
agreement, the one that ended four years of litigation and
seven lawsuits on July 28. Judge Jurnigan scheduled a
conference to implement and make sure parties are
cooperating four times in August and four times in
September to make surely the parties were cooperating.
The reason this litigation was not dismissed was because
Judge Jurnigan wanted all the parties to complete all the
parts of the settlement agreement. And if anything was
not completed, the settlement agreement would collapse,
and we would be back in front of you in the original
lawsuit filed May 28, 2009 by Mr. MacPete. We never got
the settlement completed. Baron didn't pay his lawyers,
and they started coming to us for money. We settled for a
certain amount. We didn't settle for a certain amount
plus the legal fees for nineteen lawyers. So Judge
Jurnigan with her consent we didn't dismiss this case
because we thought we might very well be up here, and here
we are. The special master was terminated. Some of the
hearings where the Judge Jurnigan warned Mr. Baron were
September 15, September 22, September 30, October 8, and
then she issued her report and recommendation October 12.
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This case was never dismissed because we couldn't get the
settlement done. They were all coming to us saying we
weren't paid by Mr. Baron. Now we want the money from
you. That's why this case wasn't dismissed.
As far as Mr. Lyon was concerned, he's been in
and out. I got a call from him November 19th he was
resigning, two days after Martin Thomas resigned and two
days before Stan Brewer resigned. The judge issued a
report recommendation because the lawyers kept coming in
and out, and she called it a cavalcade of lawyers. What
was happening, Judge, there was a new set of sub rosa
class of lawyers coming in to say they were in-house
counsel because they knew they couldn't come into court
and appear before Judge Jurnigan. Then you had a layer of
lawyers quitting and then a new lawyer. One of the
lawyers we never saw, Mr. Barry, he sued Mr. Baron for
fraud. So all of this was happening right before the
receivership was created. Through the lawyers resigning,
the mediation process for the law firm fees was
essentially sabotaged. Stan Broom was supposed to
represent Mr. Baron in the law firm claims. There were
somewhere between twelve and fifteen. These lawyers
weren't paid by Mr. Baron. He resigned the 22nd. No one
was cooperating with Mr. Vogel who was still special
master. No one objected to Mr. Vogel overseeing the legal
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disputes, the mediator. Mr. Schepps called me this
morning and said he's going to seek to strike Judge
Jurnigan's order of October 12th, and I said "It's too
late," and he said "I wasn't the lawyer then; I'm the
lawyer now." So as far as Mr. Lyon is concerned, I don't
know if he's in or out, but Mr. Schepps has filed about
ten motions in this case. The reason this case wasn't
dismissed is the reasons that Baron has sabotaged the
settlement agreement.
THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Lyon, I'm going to
let you withdraw. Mr. Schepps, you are here for all
purposes. That's it. I'm considering you here for all
purposes. You filed objections to all sorts of things
involving receivership applications and so forth. That's
the way it's going to be. That's the way it is.
MR. SCHEPPS: Who is going to pay me?
THE COURT: I'll probably end up paying you at
the end of the case.
MR. SCHEPPS: Your Honor, like I said at the
last hearing, I don't believe you have subject matter
jurisdiction to pay me. There is a brand new case from
the Fifth Circuit, September 3rd, 2010 and the court of
appeals said the district courts do not have jurisdiction
to pay attorneys' fees.
THE COURT: I think that case is inapplicable to
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this matter. So you are here for all purposes.
Okay. Now, it's time for me to hear from the
receiver and the trustee.
MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, Barry Golden, the
receiver. To be clear, the receiver is neither the movant
or respondent on this motion to stay. The receiver will
appear as a receiver if called by either side.
THE COURT: That will be fine. Okay,
Mr. Roossien.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, by and large, I would
like to stand on the papers that we have put forward with
the Court.
THE COURT: Well, what I would like to do is put
those papers in as exhibits in this hearing through a
witness.
MR. ROOSSIEN: What I mean is we have filed a
response that sets forth our position with regard to the
matters before the Court, and at the last hearing I gave a
short summary of that with regard to the additional papers
that we have presented that are matters of record. We
have an exhibit binder to be able to present to the Court.
THE COURT: Mr. who?
MR. ROOSSIEN: We have an exhibit binder to put
before the Court, and then we have several witnesses
through whom we can present those.
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THE COURT: Perfect.
MR. ROOSSIEN: And then with regard to the
witnesses, it's our understanding that Mr. Baron's
counsel -- Mr. Baron rather -- intends to call nine
witnesses, and those would be -- they envelope our witness
list. So it being his motion, I suspect he's able to
proceed on that.
THE COURT: Excellent. By the way, Mr. Schepps,
if the Fifth Circuit says I can't pay you, you may be
working for free, but you will not be the last lawyer for
Mr. Baron who worked for free.
MR. SCHEPPS: It wouldn't be the last time I
have ever worked for free in my legal career.
THE COURT: That's a good spirit.
MR. SCHEPPS: We have a couple of housekeeping
matters we would like to take up, if I may.
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. SCHEPPS: We filed this morning a notice to
strike the notice of transmittal regarding withdrawal of
reference, and I believe it's Document 201. We also filed
a motion to vacate the order adopting Judge Jurnigan's
report. We filed that this morning.
THE COURT: Let's start over. You filed a
motion to strike what?
MR. SCHEPPS: Strike the notice of transmittal
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of the master's report that was submitted to the Court by
Judge Jurnigan.
THE COURT: You filed this this morning, notice
of motion to strike transmittal and motion to strike the
special master report.
MR. SCHEPPS: Yes, we would like to briefly
present them so that we have a clean record for the court
of appeals.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. SCHEPPS: On the motion to strike --
MR. URBANIK: Your Honor, those were just
received this morning. We have not had an opportunity to
review them and prepare a response. I don't think the
matters are ripe for hearing this morning. They could be
filed weeks ago. In fact, Judge Jurnigan's order was
October 12. I asked Mr. Schepps "Why didn't you file it
then?" And his answer was "We weren't his counsel."
THE COURT: Well, you can respond. I think the
rule is 21 days. And I'll allow you to respond, and then
we'll have a hearing on these motions.
MR. SCHEPPS: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MR. SCHEPPS: Not unless we're going into the
entire motion to vacate and stay.
MR. URBANIK: Your Honor, I think all the
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attorneys should understand better your time limits and
your schedule, and they have two hours, and maybe we have
two hours? Can you give us guidance on how much time we
have available?
THE COURT: We have available today. I'll keep
an eye on the clock. But if we need -- Can you do your
job today?
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, we can easily do our
job today. I would be interested to know whether or not
Mr. Baron intends to push this beyond today.
MR. SCHEPPS: Yes, we can do our job today.
MR. URBANIK: And I believe Mr. Roossien intends
to speak about Mr. Baron. We were intending on call him,
and we're surprised he's not.
THE COURT: We'll see him at 1:30.
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, I'm just assisting.
I'm not making an appearance in this matter with
Mr. Schepps, and I'm just assisting Mr. Schepps.
THE COURT: What does that mean?
MR. BARRETT: It means I was originally brought
into this -- I haven't been paid anything either. But I
was asked by Mr. Schepps to assist in the last hearing
which I did, and because it was turned into another
hearing, I just agreed to assist in this hearing as well.
So I would ask not to be held as Mr. Baron's counsel as
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well in this matter or bound as his counsel as well and
just proffer to the Court that I'm assisting Mr. Schepps
in this matter.
THE COURT: Are you going to ask any questions
of any witness?
MR. BARRETT: I was going to. I certainly
prepared for this hearing.
THE COURT: Normally that would be an
appearance. It's kind of like you have your fingers
crossed behind your background when we're on the
playground. I'm not for sure how you can participate in
the hearing and not be counsel of record. Maybe there is
some exceptions to the Rule that I'm unaware of. I have
only been doing this forty years, and it may be something
happened in those forty years that I have missed. I do
appreciate your being here. I do know that you are not
being paid. As I say, there is a long line of lawyers out
there that have not been paid.
MR. BARRETT: In that respect, I will say I have
spent a week and a half with my client preparing for this
hearing, and if that's the Court's position I'm not going
to ask any questions on this matter. We're going to
proceed solely on the appeal in that case.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, could I make a
suggestion?
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THE COURT: You can. You know, I have only been
a lawyer for forty plus years. I've been in lots of
lawsuits. I have never seen a situation where lawyers
come in limiting their appearance in forever. Forty years
I have never seen this.
MR. BARRETT: Well, I'm only appearing here for
appellate purposes.
THE COURT: If you are only here appearing for
appellate purposes, you have nothing to do at all.
MR. BARRETT: Well, your Honor has said we will
be working for free in this case.
THE COURT: Well, my goal has been to set up
this receivership because I think your client, Mr. Baron,
has completely abused my Court, the bankruptcy court and a
couple of dozen lawyers and abused the legal process, and
so I have been trying to figure out a way that I could
remedy this terrible problem. And so I've got again
lawyers coming before me who haven't been paid. I
understand that.
MR. BARRETT: And your Honor, respectfully, I
believe the evidence that I have spent a week and a half
on would show differently than what you have formed an
opinion on.
THE COURT: Let me tell you, I didn't form an
opinion. It's fact. It has been in my Court. I have
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witnessed things in my Court. So I'm not talking about
opinion. If you're here telling me that Mr. Baron who
went through five or six lawyers in a very short period of
time in my Court, if that didn't happen --
MR. BARRETT: That's not what I said, your
Honor.
THE COURT: What did you say?
MR. BARRETT: Well, your statement earlier was
with respect to Mr. Baron's conduct.
THE COURT: Yes, that I saw in my courtroom.
MR. BARRETT: Okay. I understood it to be based
on Judge Jurnigan's report.
THE COURT: Well, Mr. Baron was in my courtroom.
MR. BARRETT: Okay. What did he do in your
courtroom, your Honor?
THE COURT: It's in the record. Why don't you
read the record?
THE COURT: You were here the whole time?
MR. BARRETT: I was.
THE COURT: And you didn't see any different
parade of lawyers?
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, I have seen a parade
of lawyers, yes, I have.
THE COURT: Did you see them in my courtroom?
MR. BARRETT: I think that Mr. Baron does have a
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problem with lawyers, yes.
THE COURT: And do you understand that the
problem became so acute that it was creating an
obstruction of the legal process? Did you ever witness
that? I witnessed that.
MR. BARRETT: I do, your Honor, but this case
settled.
THE COURT: This case did not settle during my
time in the proceedings. It did not settle.
MR. BARRETT: Well, Mr. Baron was required to
execute a document which he did.
THE COURT: In Judge Jurnigan's court
MR. BARRETT: In Judge Jurnigan's court, that's
correct, which he did. And Mr. Urbanik is holding the
dismissal papers, and he has not filed those papers. So
here we are now with other lawyers perpetuating the case
and getting paid on the case. I think it's a combination
of Mr. Baron having a chronic lawyer problem and lawyers
also running up fees in the case.
THE COURT: Well, Mr. Barrett, you are here for
all purposes. I'm glad to have you here. You look like a
good lawyer. So you are here for all purposes.
Mr. Urbanik, is there anything you want to say?
MR. URBANIK: Your Honor, there is two different
worlds here, reality and then Mr. Baron's world. Everyone
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was trying to complete the settlement, and he did
everything he could to fire his legal team, fire the
lawyers and not participate in the mediation, and then the
receivership was created. In nothing they have filed with
you or the Fifth Circuit do they acknowledge the two-year
history of chaos created through the hiring and firing of
the lawyers. They filed a number of pleadings with the
Fifth Circuit and do not mention any of the warnings.
There were twenty, including from this Court in the
beginning of the litigation. They are in their own world,
attacking lawyers instead of dealing with the facts.
We're not in Baron's world; we're in reality. We need to
get the witnesses on to explain to the Court and create
the record why the receivership was created. There has
not been any pleading filed by this team that dealt with
any of the facts. None of the facts. They ignore them.
They misled the Fifth Circuit. They wrote in a pleading a
week ago that you declined to rule. That was deceptive.
It was sanctionable. Very unprofessional behavior. And
it's continuing to this day.
THE COURT: Yes, Mr. MacPete.
MR. MACPETE: I have one other point that I want
your Honor to keep in mind, and that is I think Mr.
Baron's legal team is taking a narrow view of what your
case is, your Honor. Your case is not limited to the case
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I originally filed and you entered a preliminary
injunction in. Your case encompasses not only that aspect
but essentially the oversight of Judge Jurnigan's
bankruptcy case. I know you are aware of that, but I
wanted to state it out loud that your case is not limited
to my case but Judge Jurnigan's case and your oversight of
Mr. Baron's conduct in that case as well as this one that
you personally witnessed.
THE COURT: I agree. And Mr. Barrett and
Mr. Schepps, I'm glad you are here. You are here for all
purposes, and you represent Mr. Baron.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Ready, Mr. Roossien?
MR. ROOSSIEN: Yes, your Honor, I am delighted
to call witnesses. However, it's not my motion.
MR. SCHEPPS: May I make an opening statement?
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. SCHEPPS: We're going to request a ruling as
a matter of law. I wanted to point a few things out to
the Court.
THE COURT: Okay. Briefly.
MR. SCHEPPS: Briefly. There is no property
interest that's been invoked in this case. Receiverships
are specifically to make further dispositions. Without
it, as a matter of law, the Court may not order a
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receivership against an individual. This Court has taken
personal jurisdiction over Mr. Baron's body, over his
money, credit cards, his --
THE COURT: Actually, I haven't taken
jurisdiction over his body. If I had he would be in jail.
MR. SCHEPPS: That's what the receiver order
says.
THE COURT: If I took jurisdiction over his
body, he would be in detention.
MR. SCHEPPS: Over the receivership party. And
he's a receivership party.
THE COURT: I have taken over his property, but
not his body. Do you understand if I took possession of
his body, he would be in detention which I actually
considered several times? So please understand that I
have not taken custody of his body.
MR. SCHEPPS: Thank you. Your Honor, the
receivership is a special remedy that is allowed only as a
step only to achieve a further disposition of final
property. In Gordon versus Washington 295 US 30, the
Court held there is no occasion for a court to appoint
receiver authority on property too which there was no
further request for disposition. That's the occasion here
in this Court. There is no request for further
disposition. And the Court has entered a receivership for
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the sake of a receivership without any request by any
party to make a further disposition of receivership
property. So that makes the receivership an end instead
of a means to reach an end. And that's the fundamental
problem with the receivership. And this Court does not
have subject matter jurisdiction over disposition of
Mr. Baron's asset, nor the fee disputes with his prior
attorneys. In the case of Griffin versus Lee that was
handed down just a couple of months ago, the court said if
an attorney has a fee dispute with a client in a case in
which he represented the client in a federal matter -- the
Fifth Circuit said that's a state court problem and that
the trial court has no subject matter jurisdiction to rule
on an attorney fee application, and we believe that the
receivership has been put in place as a vehicle to pay
attorneys and circumvent the Rule that the Court doesn't
have subject matter jurisdiction. And we believe it's for
an improper purpose and the Court does not have
jurisdiction over Mr. Baron's personal assets.
And imposition of a receivership, the third
point, your Honor, requires due process. And without due
process the receivership is void ab initio. That means
it's void in the rendition of the receivership order.
It's an extraordinary remedy to be employed with the
utmost caution, and the district court has the discretion
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to appoint a receiver only after a finding is made showing
the necessity of a receivership. And there was none in
this case. There was no opportunity for Mr. Baron or
Mr. Baron's attorneys to appear. There was no hearing
held. There were no affidavits attached to the motion for
receivership. There were no declarations attached to the
motion for receivership. There were no findings made in
the order for receivership. And it completely and totally
lacks any features of due process. And under the
Worldwide Volkswagen case that means it's void in the
rendition, and the court should immediately vacate the
order because it was issued without due process.
And furthermore, the reason for the receivership
motion was so that it would bar Mr. Baron from hiring
attorneys. It would strip him of his assets, Number 13,
in order to prevent him from freely hiring attorneys. And
hiring an attorney of your choice is a Constitutional
right, and he has been deprived of that. And right now we
move the Court for an order as a matter of law vacating
the receivership in the same vein as a motion for a
directed verdict because it was issued without -- it was
issued without due process. And so we would request that
the Court make a ruling right now and as a matter of law
on whether to vacate it or not.
THE COURT: Well, you know, first, it's not a
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motion for directed verdict. It's a motion for judgment
as a matter of law which takes place after evidence is
presented. But thank you very much. I'll hear from
Mr. Roossien.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, a couple of things.
I believe your Honor has the ability to limit opening
statement, and it would be nice to get to the witnesses.
We had a lot of discussion last time and didn't manage to
get there. I hope we can get to calling a few witnesses
today.
THE COURT: As soon as you finish.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Outstanding. I will be brief. I
believe there has been due process. I pointed this out
before, and obviously with regard to policing the docket
of this Court and the bankruptcy court this Court has
jurisdiction ancillary too which the Court can have a
receiver, and once the receiver is in place, there are a
whole host of matters that come before the Court, and we
appreciate the Court's patience in that regard, and we'll
let them call witnesses.
THE COURT: First witness.
MR. BARRETT: We call Gary Lyon, and we invoke
the rule.
THE COURT: Who are your witnesses?
MR. BARRETT: Actually we call Ray Urbanik
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first. The Court indicated previously the Court will
withhold a finding as to Ray Urbanik's testimony until the
end of the hearing. And I would just point out to your
Honor that Mr. Urbanik has filed a sworn application in
the case. He's therefore a fact witness, and if the Court
were to deny Mr. Urbanik's testimony, then we ask for a
specific order denying relief, and then we would, of
course, ask for an offer of proof from Mr. Urbanik.
THE COURT: Mr. Urbanik's testimony, if needed,
will be the last witness. I have control of the Court and
the order of the witnesses.
Now, you say you want to invoke the Rule.
First, Mr. Urbanik is sitting here as counsel, so he's not
under the rule. Who are you invoking the rule for?
MR. BARRETT: Gary Lyon, Gerritt Pronske, Peter
Vogel.
THE COURT: You understand Mr. Vogel is the
receiver. He's a party. He's here as the receiver. He
cannot be placed under the Rule. Mr. Sherman is the
Trustee. He cannot be placed under the rule. So who else
do you wish to place under the Rule?
THE COURT: Mr. Chesnin. Is he here.
MR. CHESNIN: Here.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. BARRETT: Dean Ferguson. Mr. Ferguson is
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here. Is Dr. Tetford here? And Mr. MacPete.
THE COURT: Mr. MacPete is counsel, and he's not
under the Rule. So the two gentlemen, Mr. Chesnin and
Mr. Ferguson, they have asked you be under the Rule. Are
you an attorney Mr. Chesnin
MR. CHESNIN: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: These are fact witnesses?
MR. BARRETT: Yes and I am going to hurry it up.
I'm not going to prolong this.
THE COURT: Mr. Chesnin, I normally don't put
lawyers under the Rule, but if you and Mr. Ferguson would
wait outside.
MR. FERGUSON: Your Honor, if I may bring my
information forward.
THE COURT: Yes, sir. Anybody else in the
courtroom who's to be called as a witness?
Mr. Lyon is the first witness. If you will
please come forward, Mr. Lyon.
(Sworn)
GARY LYON
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q State your name, sir, for the record?
A Gary G. Lyon.
Q How are you employed?
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A Presently I'm not employed.
Q Back on or about -- Oh, let's say, August of
2010, how were you employed?
A At that time I was employed under a contract
with Jeffrey Baron.
Q And in what capacity was that contract?
A At that time I was general counsel.
Q For whom?
A Mr. Baron.
Q In what capacity?
A Just Mr. Baron's personal counsel.
Q For what entity?
A It was just for Mr. Baron. I was not working
for Ondova or any of the LLC's or the Trust. Just for
Mr. Baron.
Q Doing what?
A Doing general legal work. Handling any
particular filings he needed filed, document review.
Q In the bankruptcy court?
A In the bankruptcy court and also this Court.
Q So you were involved in the bankruptcy?
A That's correct.
Q And in this Court?
A Yes.
Q And that was the bankruptcy of Ondova?
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A Ondova Limited Company.
Q So you weren't involved in Ondova?
A Yes, sir.
Q And in fact were you also -- Were you also
ordered at some point to attend a mediation subsequent to
that?
A I do not recall being ordered to attend a
mediation, no, sir.
Q You don't recall that?
A No, sir.
Q Did the settlement agreement, in fact, require
agreed orders of dismissal of the case be executed within
two days after the transfer date?
A Yes, sir.
Q And in fact, was that transfer date
approximately August 5th, 2010?
A I don't recall the date.
Q Okay. And to your knowledge, did Jeff Baron
comply with that?
A To my knowledge, he did.
Q And that was the only stipulation in the
settlement agreement that he complied with, correct?
A He also was required to sign as trustee of the
Day Star Trust which he was. We also negotiated a
settlement where he was to sign for the -- There is
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another trust. It was a trust that was over one of the
other -- It was the trustee of the domain Jamboree. We
worked that settlement. He was not actually the trustee
at the time. We don't know for sure. We worked out a
settlement where the Court would allow him to sign if the
last known manager of the trust was not available.
Q Was that actually in the settlement agreement?
A (No response).
Q Were those subsequent things you talked about in
the settlement agreement?
A The subsequent things were in the settlement
agreement, but we actually announced that before the Court
on September 15th, September 21st.
Q But the only stipulation in the settlement
agreement was that he execute within two days after the
transfer date the agreed orders of dismissal, correct?
A That's correct to the best of my recollection.
Q And he did that, correct?
A I think he didn't do it within two days. In
fact, it took several days to get him to sign.
Q Oh, really. How many days did it take?
A I do not recall. I have to review my e-mails.
Q All right. Do you know approximately when that
e-mail would have been?
A There were several e-mails back and forward with
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Jeff trying to get him to sign. Dean Ferguson was also a
part of that.
MR. BARRETT: May I have a second, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Okay. You didn't bring your e-mails down, did
you?
A It would take me ten to fifteen minutes to get
to them. But I do have my computer with me.
Q During a break, would you mind seeing if you can
find an e-mail that says when that settlement agreement
was required to be signed and when in fact Jeff signed it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And did Jeff pay you your attorneys' fees?
A Not completely.
Q You signed a settlement agreement with him,
didn't you?
A That's correct. I signed it for him because his
other attorney has withdrawn.
Q You were satisfied?
A No.
Q With the settlement agreement?
A I was satisfied with the settlement agreement,
but that has nothing to do with my fees.
Q You got paid what you agreed to?
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A No, I did not.
Q Did you didn't agree with that settlement?
THE COURT: Excuse me. Did the settlement set
forth the legal fee agreement of Mr. Lyon in the
settlement agreement?
THE WITNESS: No, sir, it did not, your Honor.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q It was a separate settlement, correct?
A No.
THE COURT: How many settlement agreements are
you talking about?
MR. BARRETT: Well, I believe Mr. Lyon settled
his attorneys' fees separate from the settlement
agreement.
THE COURT: Well, I need to know the settlement
agreements. So you are talking about the overall
settlement agreement is one settlement agreement.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: And then you say that Mr. Lyon and
Mr. Baron entered into a separate settlement agreement.
MR. BARRETT: I'm very sorry. I was not clear
on that.
THE COURT: Why don't you clarify that?
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Did you and Mr. Baron enter into a separate
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settlement agreement for attorneys' fees?
A I did at the time based upon facts that
Mr. Baron gave that I have since found out were not true.
Q But you did settle for attorneys' fees?
A For August and September. I have not settled
for October or November.
Q How much did you get paid?
A Four thousand dollars.
Q Is that all you got paid?
A That's all I got paid for August and September.
Q What did you get paid total for all the work you
did?
A $26,500.
Q Approximately?
A That's close. There would be expenses in there.
I don't want to be exact, but that was expenses, too.
Q And how long did you represent Mr. Baron?
A My representation, as I told Sid Chesnin, was
not done until I withdrew from these cases. So
effectively to today.
Q You're counting today?
A And I have not done much work for him in October
and November.
Q How long did you actively represent him?
A Through October and I have to get the e-mails.
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Q Starting when to when?
A Starting April 25th.
Q Oh, really. Let's talk about that. Do you have
your billing statements with you?
A On the computer I do.
Q They would be on the computer?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you can access those as well?
A Yes, sir.
Q Would you mind to review those on the break as
well?
A Yes, sir.
MR. BARRETT: We will pass the witness.
THE COURT: Mr. Roossien.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Mr. Lyon, did Mr. Baron ever ask you to find a
way out of the settlement agreement approved by the
bankruptcy court last summer?
A Several times prior to being signed, yes.
Q What do you mean prior to being signed?
A Prior to signing the settlement agreement there
were several times he asked to figure out a way -- He did
not want to do this.
MR. BARRETT: Objection, your Honor.
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THE COURT: You have opened the door so wide.
You asked if he agreed about his fees in settlement. He
said no. Mr. Baron lied to him.
MR. BARRETT: That doesn't open the door to
attorneys' fees. We object to attorney-client privilege.
THE COURT: Your objection is overruled.
MR. BARRETT: Based upon Constitutional grounds
of attorney-client privilege.
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, at this time, I would
ask that the receiver waive my rule, and it's under the
purview of the receivership. I worked at the FDIC for a
long time and we could waive attorney-client privileges
that were done prior to the receiver. If the receiver
would waive my attorney-client privilege that would be
fine.
THE COURT: Well, I believe the door has been
opened, and the attorney-client privilege has been waived
based upon Mr. Barrett's questions. Mr. Barrett waived
the attorney-client privilege as to all of these witnesses
as he proceeds.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Could you tell us what you know about
Mr. Baron's efforts to get out of the settlement agreement
in the bankruptcy court?
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A A number of times comments about the oppressive
nature of the settlement agreement.
MR. BARRETT: May I have a standing objection?
THE COURT: You may.
A Other times it was issues brought up about a
particular fact. And a lot of those were true concerns,
and I understood them, and we attempted to resolve those
concerns with deliberate mediation and settlement hearings
and things like that. But in every way, Jeff was not
happy with the settlement, not happy that they were taking
his money away, not happy that they were controlling his
entities or not happy about a number of things. It was
what I was directed. Never an e-mail. Never in an e-mail
but constant phone calls, long phone calls, about his
problems with the settlement, problems with everything.
They were taking away his e-mails, his domain names and
everything, and I could understand his concern.
Q Was that up to the time you represented him?
A Up to the date we signed the settlement
agreement.
Q Which was when?
A The signature went in August. There was
signatures in September. Some we missed. So it's a fluid
date here. I'm trying to remember the exact date. But I
don't recall. I can find out.
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Q It continued at least into September; is that
fair?
A Yes.
Q And there were signatures not just of Mr. Baron
individually but also certain trusts for which he was able
to sign; is that correct?
A Just two trusts that he signed.
Q There was some discussion about his
authorization to sign on behalf of those trusts? For
example, Day Star?
A Day Star I never had a problem with because we
found the Day Star trusts. I never found the documents
for the other trusts. So I was somewhat concerned with
Jeff signing, and in light of the fact that we could not
find a previous manager, and because I had some concerns
because Netsphere individuals had signed for that trust, I
still to this day have concerns over that signature. But
obviously the point is to bind what was an entity that had
an asset that was essentially valueless.
Q There was an additional signature that was
needed to conclude the settlement agreement; is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q When was that signature finally affixed? A
month would be fine.
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A It was in September. Mr. MacPete or Mr.
MacPete's client would know probably off the top of their
head.
Q And with regard to Day Star, this is a trust --
correct me if I'm wrong -- that Mr. Baron is both the
trustee and beneficiary of. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q And even to this day, to your knowledge, Day
Star would be a trust that Mr. Baron would control. Is
that correct?
A Well, would manage, yes.
Q In other words, he's the trustee, correct?
A Correct.
Q And the beneficiary?
A That's correct.
Q Now, do you recall being at a hearing December 1
of this year in bankruptcy court?
A December 1? I don't recall if I attended that
hearing or not.
Q This would be a hearing in the bankruptcy court
with regard to the Munsch Hart fee application. Do you
recall that?
A Yes, I was there after the receivership order,
yes, I was. I'm sorry.
Q This would be a few days?
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A I thought that was after September 30th. I'm
sorry.
Q And the bankruptcy court records reflect you
appeared as attorney for Mr. Baron, correct?
A That's correct, I was attorney of record as well
as Thomas Martin.
Q And the fee application for Munsch Hart --
Docket 490 in the bankruptcy court -- is something you
objected to on behalf of Mr. Baron, correct?
A It was a limited objection. It was not
necessarily to the fees but to the nature of the
information providing the fees because we could not tell
whether the amount of fees were reasonable based upon the
amount of information provided.
Q That's fine. The record will reflect that
Docket 521 is the objection that you provided.
MR. ROOSSIEN: May I approach the witness, your
Honor?
THE COURT: You may. Are you going to mark
this?
MR. ROOSSIEN: I was going to proceed with the
bankruptcy court number. But actually it might be easier.
What's our number. Exhibit 48 if I may, your Honor. And
I'd like to ask the Court to take judicial notice of this
which is also Document 521 on the bankruptcy docket.
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THE COURT: Absolutely.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Mr. Lyon, this you indicate is a limited
objection. It also indicates toward the end here that the
conclusion here in Paragraph 8 is that the fee application
may be somewhat over reaching. Do you see that?
A That's correct.
Q Is that a fair statement?
A In light of what I was billing and what other
attorneys were billing, there were times that I felt like
that things were coming up that could have been settled
much quicker, but again, I felt like a lot of things were
going on that didn't need to go on. But I wanted to
settle this thing. I wanted to get it done. Some of that
was because of Mr. Baron's own actions and the adversarial
position that was at that time very hot and heavy that
made it seem overreaching on both parties. Not just Mr.
Baron but both parties. And I was wanting everything to
rachet down and settle this thing and quit arguing and
bickering like little children. That was the basis of my
statement.
Q And you indicated in Paragraph 2 that the Munsch
Hart fee application itself correctly stated the
applicable test for the fees. Do you see that?
A Yes, sir.
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Q Is that accurate?
A Yes.
Q And let me, if I may, show you a copy of the
application itself which is Docket 490.
THE COURT: I will admit Exhibit 48.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Thank you, your Honor. I would
like to mark the fee application itself as Exhibit 49,
Docket 490 in the bankruptcy court, and I would like to
ask the Court to take judicial notice of Exhibit 49.
THE COURT: I will as part of the court
records. And Exhibit 49 is admitted.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Let me ask you to take a look, if you would, at
Page 5 of Exhibit 49, and it points out there is a
five-part test here for the reasonableness and necessity
of the fees requested. Do you see that?
A Yes, sir.
Q With regard to the first element, the time
spent, was there any dispute as to whether or not the time
spent as reflected in the exhibits was not actually spent?
A This is not all the exhibits. I don't have the
actual time records that were attached to the exhibit. I
apologize. But as I reviewed them, I had a lack of
information to determine whether all the things were
necessary because I was not involved in all of those
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things, and that's why I sought a limited deposition.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, could I mark as
Exhibit 50 the time sheets that he's talking about that
are Exhibit B to this application?
THE COURT: Certainly. Exhibit 50 is
admitted.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Did your objection contend that any of the time
set forth in the sixty-page exhibit that is now Exhibit
50 -- was there any objection to whether or not time was
actually spent?
A The objection was based upon that I didn't have
enough information to make the determination of what you
are asking me to say that I determined. No, I did not. I
can't say it was objected to or not. I didn't have enough
information. I didn't have enough information based on
what's before me.
Q So the only time reflected is in Exhibit 50?
A That's correct.
Q Was there an objection to the rates set forth in
the invoices?
A Not at this time because under the Bankruptcy
Code I have the right to hold it to a final application.
I kept arguing to Jeff "Let's hold it to the end and get
it done all at once. We will have their fees." And the
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limited objection was just that. I cannot sit here and
tell you that my objection was to the rate or time. I
just needed more information. At that point in time
talking to Ray, I assumed we could resolve it. That's
where I was going with it.
Q Okay. Let me clarify a couple of points.
First, in bankruptcy court practice and in this case in
particular, an interim fee application is just that; it's
interim and even at this point Judge Jurnigan still has
not determined finally what the fees for Munsch Hart will
be in the Ondova case. Is that a correct statement?
A That's correct.
Q So the action of the bankruptcy court in
approving this fee application is something that is
interim and still open to challenge at the end of the
case, right?
A That's correct.
Q And also with regard to this particular
objection, if I'm sensing this correctly, you urged
Mr. Baron not to present this objection. Is that right?
A I did.
Q And with regard to the issue of the rates
charged, there have been two prior applications too which
there have been no objections to the rates charged,
correct?
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A That's correct. I was successful in stopping
one of them, and one of them Gerritt Pronske stopped.
Q So in both cases Mr. Baron actually wanted to
lodge objections, correct?
A That's true.
Q As to whether or not the work was reasonable,
necessary or comparable to other cases, you didn't have
any evidence to present, did not present any evidence on
those points contrary to Exhibit 50. Is that right?
A Not at that time.
Q And then when you were at the hearing and the
receiver piped up that he himself didn't have an objection
to the application, had you at that point withdrawn
Mr. Baron's own objection?
A I had not withdrawn it. At that time, I felt my
objection was taken over by the receiver. At that point,
I had no more authority to represent Mr. Baron on that
particular motion, nor did I have the authority to
represent him on the motions in limine that are still
pending over there in that court.
Q Very good. Thank you. When you put together
this particular objection, did you put forward the
strongest objection that you felt you reasonably could
under the circumstances bearing in mind the rules of the
court?
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A That's correct. I wanted more information. And
at that time I didn't have enough information to go with a
full blown objection to the fees, and secondly, it was an
interim motion, and candidly because a lot of things have
been filed that wasted the Court's time, I didn't want to
waste the Court's time. I wanted to file a big objection
at the end. That's the way I practice law. Quit wasting
the Court's time.
Q Did you feel that Judge Jurnigan would sustain
the objection when you filed it?
MR. BARRETT: Objection to speculation.
THE COURT: Well, he's a lawyer. You were
planning on filing an objection at the end of the case?
THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: And based upon how Judge Jurnigan
had handled matters up to that point, did you have a
professional view of the likelihood of success in your
objections?
THE WITNESS: In light of reasonableness of how
I tried to be in her court, I felt like she would at least
consider the possibility of having a deposition of
Mr. Urbanik so that I could delve deeper into these
matters and at least satisfy Jeff or Mr. Urbanik, one or
the other, they were right or we needed a modification. I
thought she would at least give me the opportunity to do a
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deposition. So I believed she would grant this order.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Did you have any expectations that Mr. Urbanik
would not support the application that you submitted?
A Ask that again.
Q You would expect that Mr. Urbanik believed that
the fees were reasonable and necessary, would you not?
A I wouldn't know what he believed.
MR. BARRETT: Objection to leading.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A In talking to Ray I would assume he wouldn't
support the motion if the information was not correct.
MR. BARRETT: One further thing.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Now, Mr. Lyon, the document that I believe you
have in front of you titled Jeffrey Baron's Limited
Objection to the Third Fee Interim Application of Munsch
Hart, do you have that before you?
A Yes.
Q I didn't get that marked. This indicates that
Mr. Urbanik I believe had been paid or Munsch Hart had
been paid over $670,000 from the estate of Jeff Baron,
correct?
A No, from the estate of the debtor which is
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Ondova Limited Company.
Q Ondova. And Jeff Baron is the beneficiary of
Ondova?
A No, Jeff Baron is the beneficiary of the Day
Star Trust.
Q Okay.
A Ondova Limited Company is an asset of the Day
Star Trust.
Q So indirectly Jeff Baron is the beneficiary of
that, correct?
A That would be -- Yes.
Q That would be a fair statement?
A That's fine.
Q And could you see why Jeff Baron might be
concerned that $670,000 plus is being taken out of that
trust?
A I understand that.
Q You understand that?
A Oh, absolutely.
Q And that's not some kind of a crazy thought or
an unreasonable thought, is it?
A No.
Q And could you also be understanding that Jeff
Baron could be alarmed that this application is now
seeking an additional $328,600?
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A Alarmed would be and under statement.
Q It would be and under statement?
A Correct.
Q So he certainly had a reason to do what he was
asking you to do?
A He had a reason.
Q And this document indicates I believe in
Paragraph 5 that the trustee -- Who was the trustee at
this time?
A Daniel Sherman.
Q This document indicates that Daniel Sherman, the
trustee, has recently concluded that the debtor could not
be economically or effectively reorganized in light of the
magnitude of administrative claims consisting of primarily
legal fees. Correct?
A Correct.
Q That's pretty alarming?
A That's correct. But it wasn't just their legal
fees.
Q Right. It was a lot of other legal fees, too?
A Yes.
Q So Jeff Baron had a lot of reason to be alarmed
that lawyers were taking money from him here, there and
everywhere, correct?
A I don't understand the question.
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THE COURT: You do realize that it was through
Mr. Mr. Baron's direction that Ondova went into bankruptcy
in the first place.
MR. BARRETT: Well, I think that's arguable.
THE COURT: That's arguable that Mr. Baron had
no role at all?
MR. BARRETT: He did but if I may ask the
question.
THE COURT: You may.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Let me just ask you, Mr. Lyon, what lawyer
actually placed his company into bankruptcy.
THE COURT: It's in the record.
A It's in the record, and Jeff was agreeable with
that. I have seen e-mails from Jeff that he was agreeable
with the legal opinion that we put Ondova in bankruptcy.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q You don't recall the lawyer, whomever it was,
placed his company in bankruptcy to avoid some sort of a
contempt hearing he had pending?
THE COURT: Is that a statement you wish to
stipulate to?
MR. BARRETT: I recall that, and I'm asking the
witness that.
THE COURT: So Ondova was put in bankruptcy to
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avoid a contempt hearing in my Court?
MR. BARRETT: And Judge Jurnigan's court.
THE COURT: Well, there wasn't a bankruptcy
until it was filed. There was no contempt or anything.
Let me make sure you stipulate that the purpose of the
bankruptcy was to avoid a contempt hearing in my Court.
That's a stipulation you wish to enter into?
MR. BARRETT: No, I don't.
THE COURT: That's your question.
MR. BARRETT: Well, I'm asking the question.
A My legal opinion was it was not to avoid. It
was to get time to get the assets in Ondova and have
Ondova handle some of these matters between Netsphere and
Ondova. The problem was things were going so quickly with
Jeff. I'm trying to recall the e-mails, and Jeff has them
in his possession. Going back and forth, this was
determined to be the best realm to get some control over
the assets of Ondova so that he could then resolve these
matters. In this Court, I don't recall what his opinion
was about this Court. I know he was troubled and felt
like he didn't -- Well, I'm not going there because that's
hearsay.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Well, let me ask one more question, if I may.
In your opinion, was it a good idea to put Ondova in
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bankruptcy?
A At the time, yes.
Q And in the motion which you filed, you state in
Paragraph 8 "Upon initial review, it appears that the work
performed on the bankruptcy matter has been somewhat
overreaching." What do you mean by that?
A What I mean by that is both parties, all the
parties in this case, seem to argue down to minute word.
And Jeff was a part of that. He has to except that. Such
that we spent until eleven o'clock on a Sunday night
flipping a coin over one word. That to me is a failure on
the part of the attorneys. And I accept that. I failed
my responsibility to this Court to make sure that we got a
settlement that would affect both sides and not perfect,
and that was always my argument to Jeff. But quit running
up fees by filing thing after thing after thing, and
that's after this, and we filed another thing about the
receivership.
Q On Jeffrey's side and on the lawyers?
A Yes, sir.
Q I'm not accusing you of this. You have been
paid. You may not agree with the payments you got. But
is it your opinion that some of the lawyers in this case
got on board to get paid and when the money sort of ran
out, they got out of the case?
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A No.
Q That's not true?
A No.
Q Why did some of the lawyers exit the case in
your opinion?
THE COURT: If you know. You need to tell us
which lawyer under what circumstances.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q And let me get a file and I'll go through some
people with you.
A That would help.
THE COURT: Is it Mr. Baron's position through
his counsel that lawyers should work for free? Was that
his position?
MR. BARRETT: No, sir.
THE COURT: In other words, you said the lawyers
got into the case to get paid. Do most lawyers reasonably
expect payment for their fees?
MR. BARRETT: That's not what I'm saying at all.
What I'm saying, Judge, is the lawyers got involved in the
case, and some of them got out when either there was no
money or no expectation of money at that point and sent
him huge bills under unreasonable circumstances
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I can say I disagree
with that statement.
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MR. BARRETT: Fair enough. That's all I have.
THE COURT: Mr. Roossien, any follow-up.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I do not. I want to make sure
that we have admitted 50.
THE COURT: 38, 49 and 50 are admitted.
MR. ROOSSIEN: And I wanted to clarify when the
witness said "this," he held up the fee application.
THE WITNESS: I held up Exhibit 50.
THE COURT: Mr. MacPete, did you wish to ask
questions.
MR. MACPETE: I do, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Mr. Lyon, one of the questions you were asked
earlier was what Mr. Baron's obligations were under the
settlement agreement. Do you recall that?
A Yes.
Q And he was trying to suggest that Mr. Baron's
obligations were limited to the three signatures that were
discussed. Is that correct?
A That's my understanding of where he was going.
Q That's not a fair summary of the settlement
agreement, is it?
A No.
Q And in fact, Mr. Baron has a number of
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obligations under the settlement agreement including to
pay my clients.
A That's correct.
Q He also had an obligation to refrain from
contacting the U.S. Virgin Island Revenue Bureau with
regard to the structures?
A Yes.
Q So it would be fair to say it's not a reasonable
summary of Mr. Baron's obligations under the settlement
agreement that he sign three pieces of paper?
A The statement would be that was his obligation
at that moment, but many more under the agreement.
Q And in fact, sir, you are aware of this time
Mr. Baron has violated at least two of those obligations,
correct?
MR. BARRETT: Objection. Lack of personal
knowledge.
THE COURT: Well, he can testify to what he can.
THE WITNESS: I have personal knowledge that he
is actually in violation of one, yes.
THE COURT: You may testify to that.
A I have personal knowledge he's in violation of
Callingcards.telecom.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q And that was for Netsphere August 2010?
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A It was to pay back the money that Ondova
wrongfully received for the June revenue.
Q Are you also aware that Mr. Baron directed
Ms. Schurig to file tax returns for the three C corps
without obtaining the permission of Netsphere as per the
settlement agreement?
A I did not know that Jeff gave the directive. I
know that Ms. Schurig filed them.
Q At the time Ms. Schurig was acting as counsel
for Mr. Baron. Is that not correct?
A Again, I don't know that she was acting for
Mr. Baron at that time.
Q Do you have any idea who else she would have
been acting for?
A The Village Trust.
Q Which is an entity that Mr. Baron is the
beneficiary of and now subject to the receivership,
correct?
A That's correct.
Q Second point that I wanted to ask you about,
sir, was with respect to your fees. Now, you had a number
of discussions with Mr. Baron being paid, yes?
A Yes.
Q And did Mr. Baron make recommendations to you
that you would be fully paid?
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A No. He constantly said he never had enough
money. He was broke. Didn't have any assets.
Q So he never actually promised to pay you?
A Other than the last agreement we had, he had no
money, could not pay me. Made a recommendation that the
new trustee said that we don't have enough money. I
verified that was wrong. But that Jeff actually entered
into an agreement for a lesser amount of fees,
substantially less.
Q And that was based on representations which you
subsequently determined were false?
A That's correct.
Q And in fact, you have not been paid?
A I have not been paid for the amount that was the
original contract. Jeff constantly tried to change the
contract. In fact, I believe he's in breach of the
contract in light of information provided with the last
document that was filed as late as yesterday. Jeff had
money in Wake Forest and other places he could have easily
paid me and most of the lawyers in this case.
Q Now, during your service as the general counsel
to Mr. Baron personally, you have actually witnessed him
retaining other attorneys, correct?
A I have.
Q And you witnessed him promising to pay those
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attorneys their attorneys' fees, correct?
A Yes.
Q And in fact, he hasn't paid those attorneys'
fees, has he?
A For three he has not.
Q And did you reach any conclusions based upon the
representations that were being made and Mr. Baron's
subsequent conduct about whether he actually intended to
perform those promises that he made to those three
attorneys?
A Unfortunately, yes.
Q And what is that conclusion?
A That Jeff hires people, hired me, for the
purpose of getting as much work out of me as possible and
paying me as little as possible and preferably nothing.
Q Let me see if I can clarify your answer. Do you
agree, sir, that he made promise to those attorneys to pay
them that he did not intend to perform at the time he made
the promises?
A His actions indicated that.
Q Who are the three attorneys that you personally
witnessed these fraudulent promises being made to?
A Dean Ferguson was one.
MR. BARRETT: Objection, relevance, Judge.
THE COURT: Overruled.
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BY MR. MACPETE:
A Dean Ferguson. A number of attorneys that did
not come on that we interviewed. Tom Trickly being one.
Stan Broom was one. And Martin Thomas.
Q Lastly, there was some discussion about --
during the redirect about this question of the bankruptcy
and why it was filed. And I understand that you weren't
counsel to Mr. Baron at the time the bankruptcy was filed,
but you were present in the bankruptcy court when the
bankruptcy court found that the bankruptcy had been filed
for the improper purpose of avoiding the contempt hearing
before his Honor Judge Ferguson, correct?
A I don't recall her stating that, but I do recall
reading in the record that was her opinion at the time.
Obviously that's what she was making in the record.
MR. MACPETE: And your Honor, at this time I
would ask the Court to take notice of Judge Jurnigan's
finding that the bankruptcy was filed for the improper
purpose to avoid the contempt hearing before this Court
which I filed.
THE COURT: I will take that notice. Anything
else?
MR. ROOSSIEN: No, sir.
MR. BARRETT: No, sir.
THE COURT: We appreciate your being here,
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Mr. Lyon. Apparently you have been asked to look at
certain e-mails.
MR. BARRETT: Judge, I will waive that. I think
we have gotten into that sufficiently. I will waive that.
THE COURT: All right. You may be excused for
all purposes. Next witness.
MR. BARRETT: Judge, at this time we call --
Since we have Mr. Ferguson waiting, can we get him in and
out?
MR. BARRETT: Sure.
MR. LYON: One clarification. Would the Court
wish me to file an order on the oral motion granting my
motion to withdraw?
THE COURT: No, I'll receive your oral motion.
I'll prepare the order myself. And you are excused for
all purposes, and your representation is withdrawn for all
purposes. Thank you so much.
(Sworn)
THE COURT: Let me say, Mr. Ferguson. My view
was in connection with the questions that were asked of
Mr. Lyon by Mr. Barrett that the attorney-client privilege
was waived. Mr. Barrett asked about e-mails back and
forth between Mr. Lyon and Mr. Baron. He asked about
whether or not Mr. Baron made representations to him. He
talked about matters that my view was invaded the
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attorney-client privilege, and as the attorney for
Mr. Baron that was a waiver. I will do this witness by
witness, but I will tell you if similar questions are
asked of you, I will again find a waiver and all matters
involving attorney-client communications will be subjected
to question and answer.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Would you please state your name for the record,
sir.
A Dean William Ferguson.
Q And how are you presently employed?
A Law Office of Dean Ferguson.
Q And where do you live?
A Kingwood, Texas.
Q And you have come up numerous times for the
Netsphere case that's pending?
A Yes, I have traveled up here several times.
Q We appreciate that. In what capacity did you
represent Jeffrey Baron?
A I represented Jeff Baron individually.
Q When you say individually, individually against
whom or on behalf of whom?
A Well, Jeff hired me in connection with the
pending bankruptcy case, and at the time it was in late
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July that he approached me. I got a call late on a
Tuesday night and was told that he had to have
representation because there was a settlement agreement
that his prior attorney, Mr. Pronske, who had been
representing him -- that he and Mr. Pronske had a parting
of the ways, and he needed to be represented in connection
with consummating the settlement agreement.
Q What kind of work do you typically do?
A Primarily bankruptcy and insolvency work.
Q Okay. And did you have many dealings with
Mr. Pronske?
A Prior to that time?
Q Well, to get up to speed in the case and things
like that.
A No, I had no conversations with Mr. Pronske
prior to the time I started.
Q All right. So you got involved to quickly try
to work out the settlement agreement. Is that right?
A Well, my understanding was the settlement
agreement had been essentially agreed to and that it was a
matter of getting it papered and finalized with the
bankruptcy court. At the time I think it was around July
24th or 25th, and there was a time deadline of July 28th I
believe that the court wanted to have the papers in and
signed by all the parties.
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Q Now, that's unusual to get involved in something
like that so close to the resolution, is it not?
A Yes.
Q And were you skeptical when you got hired?
A No. At the particular time I was retained.
Q And approximately how long did you represent
Mr. Baron?
A Approximately forty-five days.
Q Okay. Approximately forty-five days. Now, you
were paid by Mr. Baron, were you not? Some money?
A Yes, I was paid some money.
Q In fact, you were paid twenty-two thousand
dollars, correct?
A That's correct in total.
Q But you sent him another bill, didn't you?
A Yes.
Q For twenty thousand dollars, right?
A Yes.
Q Now, you also billed him $1,950 for local cell
phone charges, didn't you?
A Not in addition to the twenty thousand, no.
That was part of the twenty thousand.
Q Really?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now the immediate agreement that you had
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with Jeff was payment of five thousand dollars for work
that you had already performed, correct?
A I'm sorry. What agreement are you talking
about, sir?
Q Did you have some kind of a payment of five
thousand dollars first and then another five thousand or
did you just get the full twenty-two thousand dollar
payment?
A The initial retainer was five thousand dollars,
and then there was an agreement to pay additional amounts
of money for August. I agreed to reduce -- give a flat
rate for August based upon things which turned out not to
be true later, and the payments weren't received timely.
Ultimately, I did receive payment of twenty-two thousand
dollars in August.
Q And that's for forty-five days?
A No, that was for the period of time from July 29
through the end of August. Actually August 21st. It was
supposed to be a separate agreement for post-August 21.
As a matter of fact, I resigned representing Mr. Baron for
a period of about two days. He begged me to come back. I
said I would come back on the understanding that I would
be paid promptly on an agreement of three hundred dollars
an hour for the full amount of hours worked or at least we
agreed subsequently to another amount. We never reached
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an agreement.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Now, much of your agreement -- And I realize
according to your Honor I may be waiving the
attorney-client privilege here. But much of your fee
agreement was documented by e-mail.
A It was discussed by e-mail, that's correct.
Q And in fact, the specifics of your agreements
were discussed by e-mail, correct?
A Well, we had phone conversations and e-mails
both, yes.
Q Without getting into those e-mails specifically
at this point, did you ever have an e-mail that discussed
this post-August agreement?
A Yes.
Q Do you have that with you?
A No, I wasn't asked to bring any documents. I
didn't know I was testifying for you.
Q All right. And that e-mail to your recollection
said what?
A There was several e-mails, and they specifically
stated in the absence of a specific agreement as to a flat
dollar amount or a set dollar amount that I expected to be
paid on an hourly basis for the only way we had ever
agreed which was three hundred dollars per hour. I
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informed him several times after August 21st of the hours
I was continuing to incur because we were supposed to have
cut back to less than a full time representation. He
continued to utilize my services on a full time basis, and
I informed him several times that he was doing so and my
fee bill was growing larger.
Q Now, you said on a full time basis. Do you mean
your entire practice was his case?
A From July 28th until probably September 10 it
constituted about ninety-five percent of my case work.
Q So that would be a full time.
A Yes, and my understanding when I was originally
hired it was only supposed to be about thirty percent of
my case work which is why there was disagreement as to the
fees.
Q So you already sort of had a fee disagreement
with him prior to starting this three hundred dollars an
hour?
A No, the three hundred dollars per hour was
agreed at the very first conversation we ever had. I said
at that time if you want me to -- any concessions it's
going to have to be agreed to in writing and signed by
both of us. He agreed to that as the predicate that was
going to be done. Subsequently he changed his mind
several times. But that was agreed to the very first
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conversation.
Q Were you billing him weekly, daily, monthly?
How were you billing?
A I told him that I would bill him -- Well, the
original agreement was that I would bill him on a monthly
basis, but the first retention letter specifically stated
that to the extent the utilization was more than
originally participated, I would submit fee bills when the
initial retainer was exhausted, the initial five thousand
dollars. That was exhausted within the first five days of
representation.
Q So that was exhausted July 28, 29, 30, 31,
September 1, 2?
A Within the first week. I can't say it was
exactly five days or --
THE COURT: I'm a little confused about timing.
If you can remember just the month he paid you the five
thousand.
THE WITNESS: The five thousand dollar payment
was received before the end of July. Either July 29th or
the 30th.
THE COURT: So it wouldn't be -- The timing is
all screwed up.
MR. BARRETT: May I clarify that?
BY MR. BARRETT:
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Q I'm talking, sir, about the time after you have
received the twenty-two thousand dollars.
A I'm sorry.
Q After you have received the twenty-two thousand
dollars, did you agree at that point to bill him to come
back on the case only if he would pay you at three hundred
dollars an hour? Is that correct?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Okay.
MR. BARRETT: I'm sorry, your Honor. Maybe I
wasn't clear on that. I thought I was, but that's what
I'm talking about.
THE COURT: Well, you were talking about the
five thousand dollars was used up the first week. But the
first week was not the end of August.
MR. BARRETT: And I thought he said there was
another agreement for five thousand dollars.
THE COURT: No, he didn't.
MR. BARRETT: I'm sorry. Excuse me. I
misunderstood.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q So when you come back on the case, Mr. Ferguson,
and there is an agreement for three hundred dollars an
hour, how were you billing at that time? Weekly, monthly
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or daily.
A There was not a set agreement. It was going to
be a let's give this a try. I told him we would see how
things went for the first week.
Q And you are spending ninety-five percent of your
time on his case. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q Did you bill him after that first week?
A I sent him an e-mail about the amount of time I
spent after the first week and stated that we needed to
reach an agreement as to the fee.
Q Did you bill on the second week?
A I again informed him how much time I had
incurred, and I did not send him a bill at that time, but
I told him how much was incurred and again invited him to
have a discussion as to the fee.
Q Did you bill him the third week?
A Yes.
Q And that bill was for twenty thousand?
A That's correct.
Q Now, that's a round number, would you agree with
me?
A Well, it was derived by multiplying the number
of hours I worked times three hundred dollars per hour and
adding the cell bill to it. That's where the number came
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from. It was approximately twenty-one thousand, but I
don't know the exact dollar.
Q I think you said twenty thousand, did you not?
A It was not a flat twenty thousand dollar bill.
I don't recall sitting here now the exact amount I
submitted to mediation, but it was derived by taking a
number of hours and multiplying it by three hundred and
adding to it the portion of the cell bill that I thought
he was responsible for.
Q Did you inform him that you were spending
ninety-five percent of your time on this case?
A Yes.
Q And what were you doing on his case at that
time?
A Which particular time?
Q Well, from July 28 to September 10?
A Well, July 28, right around the time frame when
there was -- The settlement agreement that was in dispute,
Jeff wanted very badly to abrogate the settlement
agreement. He wanted to appeal it. He wanted some way to
break out of it and go the other direction. I spent a lot
of time not to do that. I had to analyze for him his
chances of success if he appealed something he agreed to,
and I told him his chances were slim and none and slim
just left town. But I spent a lot of time explaining to
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him the ramifications he wanted to take. He wanted to sue
Gerritt Pronske. He wanted to commence preemptive
litigation against him, and I spent a lot of time
analyzing that for him and explaining to him what would
happen in my view if he attempted to file preemptive
litigation against Mr. Pronske. There was several other
things he asked me to do. He asked me to do things on
behalf of Novo Point, Quantec. At the time he was moving
from a situation where Quantec and Novo Point were being
run by Elizabeth Schurig's firm and all of its employees
were effectively her law firm. It was going to go to a
situation where there was no employees of Novo Point or
Quantec. So he asked me to interview people and find
people to represent and effectively become the employees
of Novo Point and Quantec. He asked me to form Quasar.
Q What's Quasar?
THE COURT: Let him finish.
A Quasar was an entity he wanted to create would
manage Quantec and Novo Point.
Q So you incorporated that?
A I did not specifically incorporate that. No.
Mr. Eckels did.
Q Go ahead, sir.
A It was through a number of things like that.
Basically Jeff was asking me to try to run his business
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for him or to handle all the legal side. He felt free to
call me any hour of the day or night to discuss what was
going on and ask me for advice on how to set it up and how
best to arrange things so it couldn't be challenged by
other lawyers, how to do things so there would be no
judgments against him or how to do things so Mr. MacPete
wouldn't chase him.
Q You were essentially available for legal advice
twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week?
A As much as I didn't want to be available it was
seven days a week, yes.
Q And it's your testimony that was worth twenty
thousand dollars approximately?
A It was worth substantially more than that.
Q How much?
A Well, I discounted the time until August by over
thirty thousand dollars. I worked over two hundred hours
for him in August at three hundred dollars per hour. The
bill would have been over sixty thousand dollars, and we
spent three days negotiating, and I agreed to reduce that
to twenty-two thousand dollars. The subsequent time
frame, post-August 24, it was in excess of twenty thousand
dollars, the time that I worked for him. And frankly, I
told him when I began at that my norm hourly rate in the
Southern District of Texas is four hundred dollars an
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hour. I received in excess of that when I practiced up in
the Northern District when I was a partner at Munsch Hart.
And I already discounted my services to three hundred
dollars an hour when I started to work for him. So I do
believe that I gave him full value.
MR. BARRETT: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Roossien.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, I'd like to present
the Court with a copy of our exhibits, if I may. I'd like
to start with Exhibit 41.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Mr. Ferguson, a couple of quick things. With
regard to the cell bill, why was the cell bill part of
your expenses that you thought Jeff should pay?
A First of all, I was going to be expecting twenty
or thirty percent of my time would be devoted to the case.
He called me on the cell most of the time, and it became
pretty apparent within the first week that Jeff was going
to call me all hours of the day and night. I told Jeff
during August I normally was on a cell plan where I paid
for three thousand minutes a month and paid a certain
dollar amount. That had been sufficient for as many years
of practice as I can remember. At least ten years of
practice that I hadn't had any more than that. But for
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the time frame from July 28 through -- I think the cut off
was around August 21 or 20 the cell phone I had over five
thousand minutes that were devoted just to Jeff. I got
hit with a cell phone that was nineteen hundred dollars in
excess of my normal charges, and I discussed it with Jeff
at the time, and Jeff agreed to pay it at the time. But
later changed his mind.
Q And how long have you been a practicing
attorney?
A I was licensed in September of 1985.
Q And has all of your work been in the area of
bankruptcy?
A Essentially, yes.
Q And have you ever had a client who pestered you
more than Mr. Baron in terms of not respecting the hours
of the day?
A No.
Q Now, did Mr. Baron's activity level also cause
the lawyers who were involved with regard to other parties
to have a lot of activity themselves?
A Yes, much to my surprise.
Q And there was a status conference in front of
Judge Jurnigan on September 15 of 2010, a few days after
you finally resigned. Do you recall that status
conference?
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A Yes.
Q And at that status conference Judge Jurnigan
made a comment about a parade of lawyers. Mr. Pronske was
there at the time. What was his status?
A I know that Gerritt had resigned, filed a motion
requesting leave to resign, but I don't think that had
been granted at that point in time.
Q And that was from the position of representing
Mr. Baron?
A Yes.
Q And Mr. Patel was there. Was he a former lawyer
of Mr. Baron as well?
A I'm not sure about that.
Q And Mr. Lyon was there?
A Yes.
Q And who did he represent?
A He also represented Jeff.
Q And you were there?
A Yes.
Q And then Mr. Thomas and Mr. Broom were there.
Who were they there to represent?
A It was my understanding -- I had just learned I
guess that they were appearing as new counsel for Jeff.
It was a little bit of a surprise to me. I hadn't heard
about that until just days prior to the hearing.
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Q How was it that it came up after you had agreed
to stay on on several occasions that you learned that Mr.
Baron no longer desired your services? How did that come
up?
A The Saturday before the particular hearing you
are talking about, the September 15th hearing, Jeff -- We
had a -- Mr. Eckels, Mr. Lyon and myself had one of our
regular Saturday afternoon five o'clock conference calls
that Jeff was supposed to participate in, and Jeff liked
to visit over the weekends several times. So we had a
normally scheduled call, and Jeff was late to that call,
and he explained at the time that he had been talking to
the counsel that was going to represent him against
Mr. Pronske. And I previously had discussed with Jeff.
One of the terms I had made clear in coming back to
represent him is I did not believe there was any merit to
his claims against Mr. Pronske. I told him I felt that
his claims he was asking me to assert were sanctionable,
and I wouldn't bring them. I said "If you want to find
another lawyer to bring those claims, you feel free to do
so," and he told me that he was going to go and look and
find someone. At that time he said he found someone who
was going to help him begin his case against Mr. Pronske.
He didn't tell us at that time that he had in fact hired
Mr. Thomas and that he was going to replace me in the
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bankruptcy case.
Q So when did you find out?
A When I walked into court. I think I heard that
Mr. Thomas was on maybe the Monday before that hearing --
that Mr. Thomas was involved. Mark Ralston indicated --
Mark is the lawyer whom had originally referred Jeff to
me, and he also apparently had gotten a call from Jeff
saying that he needed a different lawyer in the
bankruptcy. I think that was the Monday before the
hearing. That was the first I heard that the case might
be moving is when Mark Ralston said, "Hey, what happened.
I sent him to Mr. Thomas. What happened with you and
Jeff?"
Q And but for Mr. Ralston's call, when was the
time you actually heard that from Mr. Baron?
A I didn't know that until I walked in the
courtroom that day.
Q Did you make an effort to participate in the
court-ordered mediation regarding the various claims
including yours?
A Yes, I submitted a mediation statement to
Mr. Vogel.
Q And to your understanding why didn't that
mediation go forward?
A Well, I'm not sure if it could have worked in
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the first place. But there did not seem to be any person
on the other side to mediate with. I made several
attempts to try and discuss the case with either Mr. Baron
or counsel that might be appearing for him in the
mediation and had no luck even identifying who potential
counsel might be.
Q And you said there was some doubts in your mind
as to why it might not work in the first place. Can you
elaborate on that?
A It was clear to me under the circumstances.
Jeff had testified at that September 15th hearing. There
was a question that was asked as to whether he thought I
had provided value for him, and he stated affirmatively
that I had and that there was some disagreement as to the
value of those services. I had a bad car wreck in late
September. I had a concussion and separated shoulder, and
I couldn't work for the month of October, and I made
several attempts to find Mr. Baron or somebody that I
could talk to. I sent e-mails and offered to settle real
cheap because I desperately needed the money, and I ended
up borrowing the money at a substantial interest rate. I
told him that was going to happen. But it became clear to
me in trying to reach out to Jeff that no mediation was
going to succeed if Jeff was involved in it. In Jeff's
view the attorneys were entitled to zero. Irrespective of
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the fact that he acknowledged the work was done, that he
had agreed to the amount that I had done and agreed that I
did good work for him. He felt that I should be paid
zero, and that seemed to be from the experience with Mr.
Pronske and the other attorneys I was aware of his modus
operandi. He felt whoever his former attorneys were, they
were not entitled to anything.
Q Just to make sure the record is clear, the car
wreck was after that September 15th status conference?
A That's correct.
Q So that was after you had already been
terminated.
A Correct.
Q And there was a point I believe where Mr. Baron
asked you to interview other lawyers. Do you recall that?
A There was actually several times during the
representation that he asked me to interview other
lawyers.
Q And do you recall him telling you why it was
that he needed you to do that?
A He kind of jokingly said, you know, you can
never have too many lawyers. He always wanted to have
somebody on tap.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, I'd like to -- so I
don't overlook it -- ask the Court to take judicial notice
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of the filing of our pleadings which are court documents
of our exhibits. Exhibits Numbered 2, 4 through 10, 12,
13 and 18 through 41.
THE COURT: Yes. And these are documents filed
either in the bankruptcy court or this Court, correct?
MR. ROOSSIEN: There are a few state court
filings as well. We have filed copies of those.
THE COURT: I will take judicial notice of the
pleadings of record and the records of the court.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q And with regard to Exhibit 41, would you take a
look at that, Mr. Ferguson?
A Yes.
Q At the end of Exhibit 41, the court expresses or
Judge Jurnigan expresses a concern about the impact that
could be made upon the Ondova bankruptcy estate if the
attorneys who represented Mr. Baron and his represented
entities go unpaid and make substantial contribution
claims against the bankrupt estate. Can you tell us what
it is that Judge Jurnigan is referring to?
A Yes, I think as Mr. Pronske filed an application
for substantial contribution based upon the efforts that
he did in representing Mr. Baron in helping achieve the
settlement and was asking that the bankruptcy estate pay
for the contribution. In a bankruptcy case, sometimes it
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will be attorneys other than just the attorneys for the
estate, such as the trustee, can seek compensation if, in
fact, they provided substantial contribution that enabled
the bankruptcy to achieve results it otherwise might not
have.
Q So the record is clear on the interplay here.
If Ondova and Mr. Baron were to obtain a settlement from
Netsphere, the opposing party, would that be a benefit to
both of them?
A Yes, for Ondova and Mr. Baron. They are
parties. And so the parties themselves -- I don't think a
party themselves would be appropriate for them to try to
seek substantial contribution. But in circumstances such
as this where the attorney for Mr. Baron applied, that's
why Mr. Pronske felt that his services did help bring
about the settlement because otherwise Jeff wouldn't have
settled.
Q So if Netsphere is on the other side and
Netsphere ends up paying money to Ondova, then Mr. Pronske
is acting both on behalf of Mr. Baron but also providing a
collateral benefit to Ondova. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And even during the time that you are working
with Mr. Baron and you are advocating for the settlement,
as you discussed previously, are you providing a
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collateral benefit to Ondova at that time?
A I believe so, yes.
Q And if you were to succeed in a substantial
contribution claim that you might present to the
bankruptcy court or to the trustee, then your additional
unpaid fees would become the responsibility of the
bankruptcy estate. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Thank you very much. That's all
I have.
THE COURT: Thank you. You may go next, and
I'll ask Mr. MacPete after you. Thank you, Mr. Barrett.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Mr. Ferguson, first off -- Well, Mr. Pronske
primarily drafted that settlement agreement, did he not?
A Well, I think it was a collaborative effort
between a lot of attorneys.
Q Primarily Mr. Pronske?
A You are saying on behalf of Mr. Baron?
Q Yes.
A I did not draft the language, that's correct.
Q But you did finish it up?
A Yes, I saw to it the settlement agreement was
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signed and obtained the necessary signatures, and there
were a number of ancillary agreements that had to be
entered into in order to have the actual signed signature
and I did those ancillary agreements.
Q Now, certainly part of what was going on at the
time, sir, was the estate was seeking a new trustee. Is
that fair to say? Do you recall that?
A A new trustee. Other than Mr. Sherman.
Q No, no, no for the Village Trust?
A Yes, I'm sorry. I didn't understand what you
were talking about by the bankruptcy estate.
Q I meant to clarify. The estate was seeking a
new trustee for the Village Trust which managed all of
these corporations and entities. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And that was a problem finding a new trustee,
sort of?
A It was an ongoing problem that Jeff faced, was
who to select as the trustee and South Pack was ultimately
selected.
Q Now, South Pack, was that a trustee that was
also in the Cook Islands?
A Yes.
Q So you guys essentially moved trustees from one
building to another building; is that correct? In the
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Cook Islands?
A I don't know where they were located. But they
were both trustees in the Cook Islands, that's correct.
Q That would make sense.
THE COURT: What would make sense?
MR. BARRETT: That the trustee in the Cook
Islands, your Honor, the original trustee for the Village
Trust that oversaw all of these corporations offshore,
that trustee was replaced by another trustee also in the
Cook Islands, your Honor.
THE COURT: I didn't understand what you meant
"that would make sense." It would make sense that you
would replace a Cook Island trustee with a Cook Island
trustee?
MR. BARRETT: No. It would make sense that if
one trustee from Cook Islands was replaced with another
trustee from the Cook Islands, they were probably in the
same building.
THE WITNESS: I don't know.
MR. BARRETT: That's fair enough.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Now, that was all above board and negotiated as
part of the settlement agreement, correct?
A I'm not sure when you say above board.
Q The transfer of the trustee from one trustee to
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the other trustee?
A There was a transfer from one trustee to another
trustee, okay.
Q Did you ever see a problem with that?
A Do you want to know about the process?
Q No, I'm just asking you did you ever see a
problem with that.
A What do you mean by problem?
THE COURT: Well, the first trustee, was he
involved in malfeasance or incompetence or something like
that?
THE WITNESS: No, Mr. Baron had a number of
claims against Mr. Adrian Taylor and wanted to find
grievances about him. With respect to seeking the
subsequent trustee, the characteristics he was seeking is
he wanted to find someone who would rubber stamp his
requests, and he was looking for a very passive trustee.
And that was the criteria he was looking for. Someone who
wouldn't interfere with his decisions as to what should
take place.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q He wanted a trustee who would listen to him; is
that correct?
A Yes.
THE COURT: Did he want more that?
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THE WITNESS: I don't know. He indicated he
wanted someone who would do as he said.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Do as he said like literally he could direct
them or do as he said that they would follow his input and
listen to his input and actually maybe consider his
requests?
A He didn't distinguish. He wanted somebody to do
what he said.
Q Well, we won't quibble with that.
THE COURT: Well, that's pretty clear.
THE WITNESS: I didn't question him further.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Was he using that language or are you
paraphrasing?
A To the best of my recollection, that's a quote.
Q Now, is it also fair to say the original trustee
over the Village Trust did not want to be involved
anymore?
A That's correct. He resigned.
Q And it was difficult to find a new trustee,
wasn't it?
A I really can't say how difficult it was.
Certainly, there was a dispute about how difficult that
was, and that was discussed in front of Judge Jurnigan at
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length in several hearings.
Q And that was part of what took so long to get
the settlement agreement signed up?
A I don't think so.
Q Do you believe that Mr. Pronske -- Well, was it
Mr. Pronske that actually found the trustee?
A No.
Q Who found the trustee?
A I don't know.
Q Were you present at any hearings when
Mr. Pronske discussed the trustee?
A I did not have any overlap with Mr. Pronske on
hearings other than the ones where he attended, you know,
when both of us were no longer representing Mr. Baron.
THE COURT: Anything further?
MR. BARRETT: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Mr. MacPete.
MR. MACPETE: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Mr. Ferguson, let me take you back to your
testimony where you were describing what you were doing
for Mr. Baron. Do you recall telling this Court that one
of the things you did is you were asked to perform work on
behalf of Quantec LLC and Novo Point LLC? Do you recall
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that?
A Yes.
Q And at the time you understood that those
entities were essentially being run for Mr. Baron by Ms.
Schurig and people in her offices. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q Is it your understanding that Ms. Schurig filed
tax returns for the three U.S. Virgin Island C corps at
Mr. Baron's direction?
A Yes.
Q And did you also understand under the settlement
agreement that Mr. Baron wasn't allowed to file tax
returns for those entities without the unanimous consent
of Netsphere?
A That was my understanding.
Q So was it your understanding that the tax
returns filed by Ms. Schurig actually a breach of the
settlement agreement with respect to Netsphere?
A I didn't understand how she was doing it or
under what authority. But I didn't form an opinion as to
whether it was actually a breach of it.
Q Because you didn't know whether or not Netsphere
had approved it?
A I didn't know what conversations had taken
place.
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Q Assuming that Netsphere had not approved the
filing of those tax returns for the C corp, would you
agree with me that the filing of those tax returns is a
breach of the settlement agreement?
A To my understanding of it.
MR. BARRETT: Objection to speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A As to my understanding, yes.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q And I think you also testified that one of your
duties on behalf of Mr. Baron was to interview people to
be hired to work for Quantec LLC and Novo Point LLC,
correct?
A Well, at the point in time when Quantec and Novo
Point were no longer going to be run by Ms. Schurig's
firm, it was anticipated there was going to be a
subsequent entity. Whether that was going to be Quantec
or Novo Point or some other entity, I don't know. But
yes, I was asked to help find counsel for those entities,
whatever they were going to be.
Q And to be clear, at the time you were working on
hiring employees for Quantec LLC and Novo Point LLC,
Mr. Adrian Taylor was still the trustee for the Village
Trust, correct?
A That's correct.
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Q And the Village Trust was ultimately the owner
of Quantec LLC and Novo Point LLC, correct?
A At that time, yes.
Q And would it be fair to say that, legally
speaking, Mr. Taylor would have been the individual that
should have been responsible if the corporate forms were
being observed to hire employees for Quantec LLC and Novo
Point LLC, correct?
A He was aware the discussions were ongoing
because they had to identify persons who were going to be
successors. There was a question as to the timing, when
that was going to take place. I didn't find someone and
say "Here, you now have a job." I was finding prospective
employees for when the turnover did in fact take place.
Mr. Taylor specifically refused to have any participation
in choosing those successors, and so that's how I became
involved in locating them, whether it's for Mr. Taylor or
for Mr. Baron.
Q But to be clear, you weren't representing Mr.
Taylor. You represented Mr. Baron personally, correct?
A That's correct.
Q And Mr. Baron personally was the person who
directed you to hire employees or locate employees for the
Quantec and Novo Point LLC's, correct?
A Yes.
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Q And Mr. Baron's only relationship with the
Village Trust is as the beneficiary of the Village Trust,
correct?
A That's fair to say.
Q So it would be fair to say the beneficiary of
the Village Trust was locating employees for entities
owned by the Village Trust, correct?
A Prospective employees, yes.
Q Now, you mentioned the high level of activity of
Mr. Baron was surprising to you, correct?
A Yes.
Q And in fact, I think you ended up doing about
three times as much work working for Mr. Baron as you
expected to do. Is that right?
A That's correct.
Q And I think you testified because of all the
work you had to do, because of Mr. Baron's large amount of
activity I think is what you said, that also caused other
parties' lawyers to have to do a lot more work than they
otherwise would have to, correct?
A That's correct.
Q And would it be fair to say -- Well, I'm not
going to put words in your mouth. What would be your
characterization of the reasonableness of the level of
activity that Mr. Baron engaged in while you were his
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counsel?
A I thought that it was excessive, and I tried to
curb it.
Q Would it be fair to say that Mr. Baron was a
vexatious litigant?
A In retrospect, yes.
Q Would it be fair to say as a result of
Mr. Baron's vexatious litigation in this case Netsphere
and the lawyers representing the trustee incurred legal
fees which they otherwise wouldn't have had to incur?
A I think that's fair.
Q Would it be fair to say it may be as much as
three times the legal fees that otherwise would have been
incurred?
A Over what?
MR. BARRETT: Objection. Speculation.
THE COURT: If you are able to make a judgment
on that. If you are not, you may say so, Mr. Ferguson.
A I can't say as to three times or a certain
amount.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Let's talk a little bit about the hiring or
interviewing of lawyers. How many lawyers did you
interview on behalf of Mr. Baron during the month of
September of 2010?
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A The month of September?
THE COURT: You don't have to be specific. If
you could just --
A I'm not sure I interviewed someone in September.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q I may have the month wrong. What month did you
spend doing that?
A August.
Q And how many lawyers did you interview?
A Five.
Q And I think you indicated that Mr. Baron said
you could never have too many lawyers?
A Correct.
Q And what was the stated purpose for in essence
lining up those lawyers?
A There really wasn't a stated purpose. I can
give an example. One of them subsequently, Mr. Cox, was
someone who ultimately became an employee of I believe
Novo Point, and at the time he was introduced to me as
being a gentlemen that Jeff had met, a lawyer that he had
met, and he wanted to talk to him about possibly doing
business in the future. There was no indication as to
what company or him personally or what capacity. And then
over time there were a couple of meetings and situations
where he would say, "Hey, I don't have anything for you
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right now and maybe down the road," and ultimately he
became the lawyer for Novo Point.
Q Some of the lawyers you were asked to interview
were litigators?
A They all were.
Q In essence, Mr. Baron was lining up future
counsel when present counsel in the litigation left; isn't
that right?
A All I know is they were possible future counsel.
Q Now, tell the Court again how many years you
practiced bankruptcy law in the federal court.
A Twenty-five plus.
Q In the twenty-five plus years that you have been
representing clients in the bankruptcy court, have you
ever had a client go out and line up a back-up lawyer for
their existing counsel?
A No.
Q Have you ever had a client go out and line up
not one, not two but five back-up lawyers for the existing
counsel on a case?
A No.
Q Do you have any idea as to -- Strike that. You
understood that there were other lawyers that had been Mr.
Baron's counsel before in the case, correct?
A I learned that as the case went on. I did not
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know that when I was first hired other than Mr. Pronske.
I was told about Mr. Pronske only at that point in time.
Q Subsequent to that, you learned there was
actually a number of this lawyers -- in fact, over ten
lawyers -- that had previously represented Baron in the
roughly five-year life of this case, correct?
A Yes.
Q And did you come to understand that a number of
those lawyers -- in fact every one except one -- had not
been fully paid for their service to Mr. Baron?
A I learned that, yes.
Q Did you ever come to the conclusion the reason
Mr. Baron had back-up lawyers is he would hire a lawyer
like yourself and get them to work as long as he could for
little or no money and then when payment was demanded he
would replace that lawyer with another one and do the same
thing over again?
MR. BARRETT: Objection. Facts not in evidence.
Hearsay, speculation. We'll stand on those objections.
THE COURT: Overruled. If you can answer, sir.
A Certainly by the end of the representation, it
certainly appeared that way, yes.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q You also talked about this search for a new
trustee for the Village Trust. Do you recall that?
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A Yes.
Q And I think your statement was Mr. Baron wanted
someone to rubber stamp his decisions. Was the reason for
that that Mr. Taylor was not rubber-stamping his decisions
at the end of the case?
A Mr. Taylor was not doing as Mr. Baron wished,
correct.
Q And Jeff did locate someone to replace
Mr. Taylor?
A Yes.
Q And who was that individual?
A I don't know the individual. It was South Pack
is all I knew at the time.
Q And was it your understanding from conversations
with Jeff that South Pack was someone that would rubber
stamp his decisions.
MR. BARRETT: Objection. Attorney-client
privilege.
THE COURT: We're way past that.
MR. BARRETT: Running objection.
THE COURT: As counsel for Mr. Baron you have
completely waived the attorney-client privilege in every
regard. So the objection is overruled.
A He said it met his goal of having a passive
trustee.
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BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Let's talk a little bit about your fees. You
said you had a discussion -- I'm sorry. I have forgotten.
Which month was it you agreed to a set fee with Mr. Baron?
A I agreed in August to a flat fee of twenty-two
thousand dollars based upon facts that turned out not to
be facts.
Q But thereafter, you made an agreement with
Mr. Baron that he would pay you three hundred dollars an
hour for your services?
A Correct.
Q Do you have an opinion based upon the
conversation you had with Mr. Baron and Mr. Baron's
subsequent conduct whether or not at the time he promised
to pay you three hundred dollars an hour for your services
post-August he actually intended to perform that promise?
A I do have an opinion.
Q And what was your opinion?
A He did not intend to pay.
MR. MACPETE: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Mr. Ferguson, when Judge Jurnigan
asked me to set up the mediation process, she was
concerned that the lawyers who were seeking their fees --
that they had substantial contribution claims and those
claims could exceed anything that was available in the
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estate to pay those claims. Just help me with this as a
bankruptcy lawyer. If those fees did exceed all available
funds to pay, what would that mean about the bankruptcy?
THE WITNESS: Well, it could create a situation
where the bankruptcy, the Chapter 11, would turn to a
Chapter 7. It would be a situation where unsecured
creditors would not receive payment in full. A lot of
things could result.
THE COURT: Would it have any consequences for
the settlement physical at all that you can understand?
THE WITNESS: I believe that the settlement
could have been jeopardized under certain circumstances,
yes. There were certain things the trustee was supposed
to have received in terms of what they also agreed to and
certain expenses they agreed to. The trustee never agreed
to pay the fees of Mr. Pronske or my fees or anything like
that. So in cutting the original deal, I think that
certainly could have changed the fundamental nature of the
bankruptcy and breached the settlement.
THE COURT: Thank you very much for being here,
Mr. Ferguson. You are excused from further attendance.
We have one more lawyer out there, and to be courteous to
that lawyer, we'll delay lunch and get that lawyer in and
out. And hopefully, this will be a shorter witness. I
understand we have nine witnesses. We have finished two
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in two hours.
(Sworn)
MR. SIDNEY CHESNIN
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Mr. Chesnin, would you tell the Court please
what do you do for a living.
THE COURT: Before we do this. Let me mention,
Mr. Chesnin, it's been my view that as counsel for
Mr. Baron Mr. Barrett has waived the attorney-client
privilege in regard to the last two witnesses, and so I
have allowed the witnesses to testify about communications
between themselves and Mr. Baron. I'm doing this on a
witness-by-witness basis, but I will inform you if in my
view the privilege has been waived, and therefore, you can
testify fully about all matters of communication inquired
on. Do you understand that?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Mr. Chesnin, how are you employed?
A I'm a self-employed lawyer of counsel to several
law firms.
Q And how do you know Jeff Baron?
A I was employed by Jeff Baron and Jeff Harbin on
November 16th, 2010 to be sort of an in-house counsel for
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Jeff Baron, Novo Point and Quantec.
Q And who is Jeff Harbin?
A Jeff Harbin is a CPA who's also the manager of
Novo Point LLC and Quantec LLC.
Q Is he someone who has writing authority under
the present receivership, if you know?
A I have seen his name all over the papers. I get
the e-mails from the court, and it's apparent that he's in
this somewhere.
Q Fair enough. Let me ask you, Mr. Chesnin, first
off, are you familiar with Peter Vogel?
A To the extent that I have seen his name. Spoken
to him on the phone once I believe. And I have seen him
in court the last couple of times.
Q Do you know what his role in this case was?
A He started off as the special master in the
bankruptcy court or perhaps this Court. I'm not sure. He
then became the appointed mediator by Judge Ferguson, and
then on November 24 he was appointed the receiver.
Q Sir, in your opinion do you see any conflict of
interest in those hats that he was has worn?
MR. GOLDEN: Objection. Your Honor, failure to
lay predicate for an expert opinion.
THE COURT: All right. Lay the predicate.
MR. BARRETT: It's just in your opinion.
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THE COURT: I thought you said in your expert
opinion.
MR. BARRETT: No. I said in your opinion.
THE COURT: I don't see how a lay person could
do that. So I'm just asking you to lay the predicate.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Sir, you are an attorney. Is that right?
A Yes.
Q And how long have you been an attorney?
A Thirty-five years.
Q And as an attorney, have you had many occasions
to come across -- Well, let me ask you first. Are you
familiar with the term "conflict of interest"?
A Yes.
Q Do you understand what that term means in the
legal sense?
A Yes.
Q And have you had occasion to come across
conflict-of-interest situations in your practice?
A Yes.
Q Are you qualified to recognize
conflict-of-interest situations?
A Yes.
Q Now, let me ask you, in your expert opinion,
sir, do you believe that Peter Vogel has a conflict of
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interest in wearing the three hats of master special,
mediator and receiver in this case with respect to Jeff
Baron.
MR. GOLDEN: I would renew my objection and
submit that the predicate has still not be laid for this
witness to be considered an expert.
MR. MACPETE: I would support the objection
Mr. Golden made.
THE COURT: The objection is sustained, but you
may continue your effort to lay a predicate.
MR. BARRETT: I'll just move on, Judge. If
that's not sufficient, I am going to move on.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Sir, let me just ask you a little more about
Peter Vogel. Now, when he was appointed mediator in this
case, he was appointed to mediate these attorneys' fees
disputes, right?
A That was my understanding.
Q And did you make many efforts to communicate
with him in an effort -- as representing Jeff Baron to
mediate these claims?
A I contacted him three times.
Q And what happened?
A The first time Jeff Baron was concerned that
Mr. Vogel was going to be charging for preparation time,
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and I was convinced he wouldn't. I called Mr. Vogel, who
indicated that he was not charging for preparation time,
and he would be charging fifteen hundred dollars for half
of a day mediation divided by two sides. I indicated that
we were interested in participating and would be awaiting
further documentation to assist us in getting into the
process.
The second time I sent him an e-mail which I
have provided to you, but I can't remember specifically.
If you have it, I would like to look at it. I believe I
sent two e-mails.
THE COURT: Mr. Chesnin, let me make sure I
understand. You called him once and e-mailed him twice.
That's the extent of your communication with him?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Let me just ask you, did he ever reply to those
e-mails?
A He replied not at all to any of my
communications. My first e-mail, I indicated I was
awaiting the list of claims that was coming in. I
understood they would be coming in by the 22nd of
November, and I would be interested in getting on board
for the mediation. The second e-mail I had been informed
by Gerritt Pronske that there was a mediation scheduled
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with Joyce Lindauer separate and apart from the mediation
in front of Mr. Vogel.
I asked Mr. Vogel whether or not the mediations
that had been separately scheduled -- namely Gerritt
Pronske and David Pacione -- were to be handled through
him or the other mediators, and I got no reply.
Q All right.
THE COURT: We'll mark those Baron whatever you
wish.
MR. BARRETT: I am going to mark them as Baron
Exhibits 1 and 2.
THE COURT: That's fine.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q I'll ask you if those are the e-mails that you
are talking about.
A The first one is an e-mail dated November 18th,
2010 to Peter Vogel, and the second one is an e-mail dated
November 23 to Peter Vogel.
Q Are those the e-mails you are speaking of?
A Yes, they are actually somewhat different than
my recollection. You know, if you want to get them
admitted.
MR. BARRETT: May I show them to counsel?
THE COURT: Yes, please do.
MR. BARRETT: I move to admit, your Honor.
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THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. MACPETE: No, your Honor.
MR. GOLDEN: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: Baron 1 and 2 are admitted.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q In any event, Mr. Chesnin, is it your belief
that Peter Vogel was uncooperative in the mediation
effort?
A No, just unresponsive.
Q Unresponsive, is that fair to say?
A He did not respond to me.
Q Is it fair to say that basically the next thing
you knew Peter Vogel was a receiver in the case?
A He was appointed the receiver the day after my
last e-mail to him.
Q So he goes from mediator in the case to a day
later receiver in the case?
A Yes.
Q Are you familiar as counsel for the mediation --
are you at least familiar with the lawyers that claim that
they didn't get paid in this case?
A I am only familiar with a limited number of them
because I was dealing with those that were in the state
court or federal court system.
Q Can I just ask you generally, generally
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speaking, did the lawyers in this case -- Are you aware
that the lawyers in this case in total got paid over five
million dollars?
MR. MACPETE: I object to lack of foundation and
personal knowledge.
THE COURT: If you lay the foundation for his
personal knowledge.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Sir, through your mediation and through your
representation of Jeffrey Baron, are you aware personally
whether or not the lawyers in this case got paid over five
million dollars?
MR. MACPETE: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: You need to get into the details.
Let's just take one lawyer that you are familiar with,
Mr. Chesnin. Give me a name.
MR. BARRETT: May I go down a list, Judge?
THE COURT: Just give me a list.
MR. BARRETT: Dan Altman.
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, the answer to the
question is I'm not aware.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Are you familiar with Dan Altman?
A No.
Q Gary Tucker?
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A No.
Q Christy Motley?
A No.
Q Okay. Generally speaking, sir, is it your
opinion that many of these lawyers got paid substantial
amounts of money?
MR. GOLDEN: Objection, your Honor.
MR. BARRETT: Judge, that question has been
asked by Mr. MacPete.
THE COURT: There is no foundation for that.
There is no foundation for that. I'm telling you, you
need to lay a foundation. Mr. MacPete is a cross
examiner. You are a direct examiner. Lay a foundation.
You got Mr. Baron to come and testify. He can testify all
day long on this subject. I don't know why we need
Mr. Chesnin.
MR. BARRETT: Well, he may. I don't know.
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, if I may, I don't
know.
MR. BARRETT: And if Mr. Baron testifies, it may
turn into a twenty-hour hearing.
THE COURT: It won't. Mr. Chesnin does not know
the answer to your questions.
MR. BARRETT: I realize that, Judge. I am going
to move on.
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BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Now, Mr. Chesnin, are you familiar with Stan
Broom?
A Yes.
Q And is Stan Broom one of the lawyers who's
alleged in the petition claiming that lawyers have not
been paid?
A Yes.
Q And in fact, has Stan Broom been paid?
A I think Stan Broom was owed four thousand
October 4th.
Q And did he, in fact, file a motion to withdraw?
A After I asked him to let me substitute in, he
said "I would rather withdraw."
Q So you offered to substitute in for Mr. Baron
rather than have him withdraw?
A Yes.
Q And he didn't do that?
A No.
Q And in fact, he filed a motion to withdraw in
the case?
A Yes.
Q And when was he paid?
A He's not been paid.
Q He has not been paid. He's owed four thousand
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dollars?
A Right.
Q He files a motion to withdraw. How long after
his motion to withdraw is filed is this action that we're
here on today filed?
A An hour.
Q So Stan Broom filed a motion, and this entire
pleading we're here on today was filed within an hour?
A Yes.
MR. BARRETT: That's all I have, your Honor.
Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Roossien.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I will be careful not to extend
this.
THE COURT: That would be deeply appreciated.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q I think all I really want to clarify is at the
time you are communicating with Mr. Vogel Mr. Broom has
not yet filed his motion to withdraw. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I think that's all I need, Judge.
THE COURT: Yes, Mr. MacPete.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
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Q Are you currently representing Mr. Baron,
Mr. Chesnin?
A No.
Q Why are you not representing Mr. Baron at this
point?
A Because when the receivership was clarified on
November 30th at the telephone conference to include two
of my employers, Quantec and Novo Point, I contacted Barry
Golden and asked him if I could be continued to represent
the receiver, and I was told I was not. I e-mailed
Mr. Baron and Mr. Harbin my resignation. I came in the
next day pro bono to help Mr. Baron clean up his office,
and I left for good.
Q Have you been fully paid by Mr. Baron?
A I have not nor can I because my payment was not
due until the 10th of December, and we were already in a
receivership.
Q And just to be clear, your representation was a
joint representation of Mr. Baron personally, Quantec LLC
and Novo Point LLC, correct?
A That's correct.
Q Did you obtain a waiver between Quantec and Novo
Point and Mr. Baron?
A There was one in process when the receivership
hit.
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Q But there wasn't actually one that was entered
into prior to you beginning your representation, correct?
A That's correct.
MR. MACPETE: Thank you, nothing further
THE COURT: Since the receivership issue has
been raised do you have any questions, Mr. Golden?
MR. GOLDEN: Not at this time, your Honor.
THE COURT: We appreciate your patience here
today, and you are excused.
MR. BARRETT: Judge, may I ask one more
question?
THE COURT: Okay.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Just one more question. Mr. Chesnin, do you
believe that Jeff Baron's lawyer problems are the result
of him being A vexatious litigant or something else?
A I have no opinion.
MR. BARRETT: Okay.
THE COURT: Thank you very much, Mr. Chesnin.
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, may I remain in the
room for the remainder of the hearing?
THE COURT: You may. Do we have any other
lawyer witnesses that I could get through here right now?
Did you want to call Mr. Pronske?
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MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir, Judge.
THE COURT: Did you notify Mr. Pronske?
MR. BARRETT: We cross-designated Mr. Pronske.
THE COURT: Did anyone contact Mr. Pronske?
MR. ROOSSIEN: I may be able to help the Court.
The Court requested at the end of the last hearing that we
advise the lawyers as to when they could arrive, and we
did contact Mr. Pronske and suggested the time of two
o'clock this afternoon. So I don't believe he would be
available until then. We also made an effort to
communicate with Mr. Schepps on that subject and failed in
terms of following the rest of the Court's instructions.
THE COURT: Do we have any other lawyers that
are here that somebody has asked to be called as a
witness?
MR. BARRETT: Not other than the lawyers in the
courtroom, your Honor.
THE COURT: You mean the lawyers at counsel
tables?
MR. BARRETT: Yes, that's correct.
THE COURT: Of course, the lawyers at counsel
table will be called at the end of the presentation. So
who do you plan to call between now and then?
MR. BARRETT: May I have one moment?
THE COURT: You may. By the way, before you
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call any lawyers that are at counsel table, you need to
proffer what you think will be the testimony.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: So you have no other witnesses
besides the lawyers at counsel table?
MR. BARRETT: That's correct. Other than
Mr. Pronske and the lawyers at counsel table.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BARRETT: I'm sorry. I do have a
Dr. William Tetford. He's not here yet, but he's a
psychologist, and he won't take more than about ten
minutes.
THE COURT: Well, I'm sure we'll see Mr. Baron
this afternoon, and we'll reconvene at 1:45. Thank you
very much.
(Recess)
THE COURT: We're ready to proceed.
MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, before we proceed,
early in the day I told you at a break I could get you
revised orders for fee applications, and I have those.
THE COURT: Good. If you will hand those to
Mr. Frye, he can hand them up to me.
Who will be your next witness, Mr. Barrett?
MR. BARRETT: Gerritt Pronske.
THE COURT: He's not supposed to be here until
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two.
MR. ROOSSIEN: That's correct, your Honor.
MR. BARRETT: No problem. We will call
Dr. Tetford at this time.
WILLIAM TETFORD
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Sir, would you state your full name for the
record.
A William Howard Tetford, Junior.
Q Okay, Dr. Tetford. How are you employed or what
do you do for a living?
A I am retired from Southern Methodist University
as a professor emeritus of psychology. I still have a
private practice in psychology which I have had since
1972.
Q What is your educational background, sir?
A I have a Bachelor of Science degree in physics
from Davidson College in North Carolina in 1958. A Master
of Science from University of Nevada at Reno, 1961.
Q Do you have a CV with you?
A Yes, sir.
MR. BARRETT: Approach the witness?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
BY MR. BARRETT
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Q Go ahead. What other credentials?
A I have a Master of Arts in psychology from Emery
University in Atlanta in 1966 and a doctoral in psychology
from Emery in 1967.
Q What sort of work experience do you have in
psychology, sir?
A Well, I taught physics for a while before, but
the first time I was teaching psychology was at Oberlin
College, a little school in Cleveland, Ohio, from 1967 to
1969, and then I came back to SMU in the psychology
department running the same laboratory I had run for the
physics department in 1969. And I taught there until my
retirement in 1997.
Q In psychology?
A Occasionally, I filled in with the physics
department if they were shorthanded. I would teach one
course.
Q Are you published, sir?
A Published about thirty-five or so articles in
the refereed professional literature and then a good many
in scientific -- Well, popular press, newspapers and that
sort of thing.
Q Do you serve on any boards?
A I have served on the Clinical Advisory Board of
the Suicide and Crisis Prevention Center in Dallas for
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about ten years.
Q How many times have you testified in the past as
an expert witness, if any?
A Probably roughly a hundred times in trial and
maybe twice that many at depositions.
MR. BARRETT: We will proffer the witness as an
expert.
THE COURT: He would be proffered as an expert.
Mr. MacPete.
MR. MACPETE: I object. I think we need
something more explicit than I'm an expert in psychology.
I don't know what the purpose is, but I object to his
being qualified as an expert until we have an
understanding of what he's going to testify about from a
subject standpoint.
THE COURT: Tell me that, Mr. Barrett. What is
the purpose of Dr. Tetford's testimony. He does certainly
seem to have the qualifications necessary to testify as an
expert in psychology. But I think it would help to know
what the issue is.
MR. BARRETT: I agree. Dr. Tetford is going to
testify I would proffer as to the defendant's mental
state, as to any irreparable injury that may have occurred
as a result of the receivership on the defendant, and
those are the issues. They are psychological issues.
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THE COURT: How long has Dr. Tetford seen
Mr. Baron?
MR. BARRETT: I believe he has seen him twice.
Put him through a battery of standardized tests and done
clinical interviews as well.
THE COURT: For how long? How long a period?
MR. BARRETT: I was going to get into that,
Judge.
THE COURT: Just tell me.
MR. BARRETT: Hours.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. When did he start seeing
him?
MR. BARRETT: During the pendency of this case.
THE COURT: Since the receivership has been in
place?
MR. BARRETT: That's correct, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, I guess what I am curious
about is he's not -- knows nothing about his experience in
litigation over these last several years, so forth and so
on. He's just saying that because of the receivership he
suffered some emotional trauma? Is that it?
MR. BARRETT: That's correct.
THE COURT: What about the emotional trauma of
all the litigation and so forth before then?
MR. BARRETT: He's going to testify to that as
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well as after then.
MR. GOLDEN: I renew my objection. I don't
think the witness is actually competent to testify about
what change there has been in Mr. Baron's mental state
because he hasn't been Mr. Baron's physician or
psychologist until after the receivership was put in
place. So in other words, if the purpose of the testimony
is to say the receivership has caused an injury to Mr.
Baron, we don't have a baseline of what Mr. Baron was like
before the receivership to compare against what he's like
now. There is no way to establish any causation. This
witness is not competent to establish any causation
between what Mr. Baron's mental condition may be today in
conjunction with the receivership because there is no
baseline comparison.
THE COURT: I would tend to agree that there is
no baseline comparison. But I will allow the testimony.
Again, we've got about three hours. How long do you plan
for Dr. Tetford to testify?
MR. BARRETT: About five minutes, Judge.
THE COURT: Okay. You may go ahead.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Dr. Tetford, what sort of examinations did you
perform upon Mr. Baron?
A Clinical interview, asked about his background.
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And I gave him four standardized test. The Minnesota
Multiphasic Personality Inventory. The Rorschach ink blot
techniques, the Beck Depression Inventory and the Beck
Anxiety Inventory.
Q What are those tests designed to do?
A The last two are basically screening
instruments. You wouldn't make a diagnosis based on them,
but I gave them to confirm what seemed to be showing up in
the other two tests. The other two, the Minnesota
Multiphasic and Rorschach ink blot will pick up a wide
range of different psychological problems.
Q What did they pick up?
A That Mr. Baron was severely depressed. That was
the major thing that came out in all the tests.
Q To the point of almost being suicidal?
A Yes.
Q Is it fair to say he's right on that edge?
A I would say so, yes.
Q And do you believe that anything and everything
that occurs to him is pushing him closer and closer to
that edge?
A I would certainly say so. I also reviewed some
of his medical records in addition to the tests that I
performed, and his MD recommended that he not be placed in
any sort of stressful situation, and I concurred with
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that.
MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, I object. That calls
for hearsay, and I ask the last testimony about what was
in the medical records be struck.
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, he's an expert. He
can review hearsay medical records.
THE COURT: He can. I can't give any credence
to it without seeing the physician himself, but he can do
that. That physician is not here to be cross-examined.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Okay. Dr. Tetford. Now, does in fact Jeffrey
have a heart condition?
A Seems to be, yes.
MR. GOLDEN: Excuse me, your Honor, I have to
object again because now we're asking a psychologist who's
not a medical doctor about Mr. Baron's medical condition
as opposed to his psychological condition, and anything
this witness says will be hearsay without any expertise to
testify to it.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Now, Dr. Tetford, did you clinically evaluate
Mr. Baron?
A Yes.
Q Did you talk about the impact of this
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receivership on Mr. Baron?
A Yes, I did.
Q And do you believe that this receivership has
had a substantial and irreparable effect on Mr. Baron?
A I do.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I object to that. I don't
believe an adequate predicate has yet been laid. The
doctor has not looked at enough information to be an
expert on that subject. There has been no development of
any baseline to determine a causation.
THE COURT: I'll sustain that. You need to lay
a better foundation.
MR. BARRETT: Okay.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Dr. Tetford, we've talked previously to this
hearing; is that right?
A That's true, yes.
Q Is it true that it would be virtually impossible
to put a dollar amount value on the effect that the
receivership itself has had on Jeff Baron?
A That's correct.
MR. GOLDEN: I object again. There is no
foundation for that. This witness couldn't possibly have
any knowledge about how to quantify such a thing, and I
agree with Mr. Roossien's objection earlier.
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MR. ROOSSIEN: I move to strike that.
THE COURT: It will be stricken.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Have you testified previously in cases involving
damages?
A Yes.
Q And have you testified as an expert in
quantifying damages?
A Yes.
Q And are you capable of quantifying damages?
A Certain types of damages, yes.
Q And do you believe you are capable of
quantifying damages in this case?
A No, I don't believe this could be quantified in
monetary terms.
Q The receivership itself?
A That's correct.
Q The damage it has caused to Jeff?
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, he has exceeded the
question and asked about whether or not it's possible. I
move to strike the last part of that answer, and I object
for the reasons previously stated.
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, I don't know what
possible predicate I could lay other than what I have
done.
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THE COURT: The problem I think the lawyers are
bringing to my attention is the fact that Mr. Baron has
been involved in multiple, multiple -- Hear me out.
Multiple, multiple, multiple lawsuits. He's hired -- I
don't know how to count but somewhere between fifteen and
twenty lawyers who he has dealt with over time. There has
been a bankruptcy. There have been all of these events
that are not being a part of this analysis at all. And
just to come in and say, well, there is a receivership and
just by itself, this receivership has caused all of these
problems for Mr. Baron is absolutely without context.
There is no context to it at all. And so it has no
evidentiary weight at all. That's the whole problem. By
the way, the other problem is if Mr. Baron is suicidal, I
need to know what steps are being taken to have him placed
in some kind of an institutional setting to protect him
from these suicidal impulses. That's a matter of serious
concern. You as his counsel would seem with your duties
to him as lawyers to certainly review what necessarily
needs to be done to protect him from himself.
MR. BARRETT: I consider it a serious matter.
THE COURT: It is serious. I'm hearing right
now the man is about to commit suicide.
MR. BARRETT: I don't believe that's the case,
Judge.
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THE COURT: That sounds like the case. It
sounds like the case right here. If that's the situation,
as an officer of the Court, as a judge, I probably have to
notify someone. I don't know. I have never had this
experience happen, but notify someone of his suicidal
tendencies and since he is in my Court order a battery of
examinations. We're talking about something very serious
here. So what steps have you taken to protect Mr. Baron
from himself? Can you tell me that?
MR. BARRETT: Well, I can question this witness,
Judge, and I don't believe this witness will say that he
needs to be institutionalized.
THE COURT: Okay. Dr. Tetford, do you believe
that the witness -- that Mr. Baron is able to protect
himself at this time? Your testimony seemed very stark
about his mental state.
THE WITNESS: I would say, your Honor, that his
mental state is very severe. I would not say that he's on
the verge of suicide. I did recommend that he begin a
course of psycho-therapy with someone, and I recommended
it to him and to his attorneys.
THE COURT: That sounds like wise counsel. Has
that been done?
MR. BARRETT: It hasn't, your Honor. We would
have to seek approval from the trustee, of course.
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THE COURT: From the trustee in bankruptcy?
MR. BARRETT: I'm sorry. The receiver.
THE COURT: Well, I will tell you right now
funds will be made available, and I think I need to have a
report this week that he has begun a course of treatment,
and whatever funds are necessary to cover that treatment
will be paid as well as Dr. Tetford's expenses.
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: But I would expect that I would
receive a report this week that a treatment regime is in
place and that all fees, all expenses, will be sent to the
receiver.
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, sir.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q I forgot where we were, but if I may go beyond
the last question I asked. Dr. Tetford, you are certainly
not saying you cannot quantify damages beyond the
receivership or prior to the receivership, correct?
A That's correct.
Q And in fact, you could quantify those kinds of
damages, correct?
A I'm not quite clear on your question.
Q Could you quantify damages over the long term?
A Not really, no.
Q Could you quantify them after the receivership
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was lifted?
A I could estimate the amount of expense that he
might have for psychotherapy from then on, but that would
be about it.
MR. BARRETT: We pass the witness.
THE COURT: Mr. Roossien, any questions?
MR. ROOSSIEN: I think I do have a few.
THE COURT: Certainly.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Dr. Tetford, it indicates in your CV that you
have worked with over a thousand clients involved in the
legal system in some capacity. Is that right?
A That's correct.
Q And a lot of those are criminal cases?
A Yes.
Q Have you ever been involved in a situation where
someone was accused of being a vexatious litigant?
A I believe once in domestic court and I think one
other -- a similar sort of thing that had to do with
trying repeatedly to get protective orders issued.
Q And do you remember the underlying psychological
conditions in those cases that caused that to take place?
A Both clients to the best of my recollection were
very upset about what was going on, sure.
Q Was there an underlying psychological disorder
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that led them to abuse the legal process?
A Not that I recall, no.
Q In examining Mr. Baron, did you have an
opportunity to come to a conclusion as to whether he is
suffering from a psychological disorder?
A Yes.
Q What is that?
A Severe depression.
Q Severe depression is not a condition that
appears overnight?
A Not overnight but it can come on very quickly.
Q Ordinarily, that would be something that would
be a personality disorder?
A No, it's not classified as a personality
disorder. There is a whole separate category in the
Diagnostic Manual for a personality disorder.
Q I assumed I was using that term at the time. Do
you assume Mr. Baron has a personality disorder as would
be classified in the DSM?
A No, I do not.
Q Were you aware, Doctor, that shortly after this
action was filed back in May of 2009, in fact, within the
space of about three weeks, Mr. Baron had to be admonished
by this Court with regard to his conduct before the Court?
A I was not aware of that, no.
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Q And were you aware -- That was on June 19. By
July 1, there was another status conference and again
Mr. Baron had to be admonished. Were you aware of that?
MR. BARRETT: Objection. Relevance.
THE COURT: Well, I think what Mr. Roossien is
doing is actually creating the predicate for the ability
of the doctor to make any opinions regarding the matters
testified to. So I will overrule the objection.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q And were you also aware that eight days later at
a hearing Mr. Baron was again admonished for his behavior
before this Court?
A No.
Q Were you aware that there was a motion put
forward for Mr. Baron's contempt with regard to the orders
of this Court and on the eve of the hearing on that motion
Mr. Baron elected to file a bankruptcy?
A No, I was not.
Q How many lawyers were you told that Mr. Baron
had retained and had released?
A That's not a subject that came up.
Q Would you believe, Doctor, that there might be
an excess of forty lawyers who have come and gone from
this Court and other courts in the last five years in some
litigation that Mr. Baron has been involved in?
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A If you are saying it, I would certainly believe
it, yes.
Q Is there anything that Mr. Baron told you that
would lead you to believe that was the case? Give you any
hint of that?
A No, he did not go into that.
Q Were you provided with the medical records from
the treating physician who has been working with
Mr. Baron?
A I have received medical records from a treating
physician. I'm not sure that's the only one.
Q How far back did they go?
A December of last year, as I recall.
THE COURT: When you say last year, 2009?
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 2010.
THE COURT: So over the last month.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Do you know how long that medical doctor had
been treating Mr. Baron?
A No, I don't.
Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Baron has been
receiving medical assistance -- psychological medical
assistance prior to December of 2010?
A I have a list of the medications that he was
taking at that time. Now, how far back they started, I
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don't know.
Q And what were the medications that he was
taking, Doctor?
A I would have to get the list out but essentially
the major ones were a variation of Paxil which is an
anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety drug.
Q What was the name of his medical doctor?
A I would have to look in my records.
Q That might be helpful.
A Dr. Martin Reagan.
Q I'm interested to know where Dr. Reagan is
located.
A It says Trinity Marsh Medical Clinic on Trinity
Mills Road in Dallas.
THE COURT: Do you have in the records the
diagnoses that gave rise to the prescription of these
particular drugs?
A Yes, I do.
Q What does it say?
A Heart palpitations, anxious state, insomnia,
hypertension, thrombocytopenia which is not enough
platelet's in the blood. Seizures, nausea with vomiting,
hyperpotassemia, which is low potassium, and an enlarged
prostate, and he is being referred for cardiovascular
screening to a Dr. Borla.
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Q And I guess I was really looking to see if there
is an underlying diagnoses of any psychological
conditions. Is that reflected at all?
A Well, the depression and the anxiety.
Q I mean like a disorder of some kind.
A I'm not sure what you are driving at.
Depression is a disorder as defined in the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual.
THE COURT: Doctor, help me with this.
Depression is not a personality disorder?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: How would you label that disorder?
Not a disorder, just a condition?
THE WITNESS: It's a condition, and it generally
can be caused by both a physiological condition within the
client and with environmental circumstances from the
outside.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: But it is considered a treatable
or curable condition because insurance companies will pay
off on it as opposed to, say, sociopathy which is
considered to be a personality disorder and the insurance
companies won't pay for that.
THE COURT: So if there is a diagnoses of
personal disorders, insurance companies won't pay for
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that. That's inherent in the personality
THE WITNESS: That's true. It's like a
condition you were born with.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Thank you, Judge. That's
actually very helpful.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q As I understand, you have done a fair amount of
work in criminal cases determining whether or not someone
has mental capacity?
A Yes.
Q And in your opinion, does Mr. Baron know exactly
what he's doing?
A I would say that he would certainly pass the
screening test for competency to stand trial, yes.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Pass the witness.
THE COURT: Thank you very much. Anything from
you, Mr. MacPete?
MR. MACPETE: Yes, sir.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q You said you conducted the MMPI and the
Rorschach test, correct?
A Yes.
Q And those tests don't diagnose personality
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disorders per se, correct?
A Oh, yes, they will diagnose personality
disorders.
Q They will give you an indication, right?
A They will give you an indication and in some
cases enough to actually make a diagnoses on.
Q And tell the Court what personality disorders
were indicated by Mr. Baron's MMPI testing.
A I saw no indications of a personality disorder
as we were defining them here.
Q What about with respect to the Rorschach test?
A Same thing.
Q No personality disorders indicated at all?
A No.
Q So as far as those tests indicated, Mr. Baron is
as normal as anybody else in this courtroom?
A Apparently.
Q Now, in doing your examinations of Mr. Baron and
forming the conclusions you testified to on direct, were
you aware that at one of the hearings in this courtroom
his Honor, Judge Ferguson, actually lectured Mr. Baron
about the powers of the District Court?
A I'm sorry. About the powers of the District
Court?
Q That's right.
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A No, I was not aware of that.
Q Did Mr. Baron tell you, in fact, that the Court
in essence threatened him if he didn't obey the Court's
orders the Court could alternatively fine him a million
dollars a day or put him in jail for six months or
eighteen months?
A No.
Q Do you think that would be a significant thing
to know in determining how much of Mr. Baron's depression
was caused by that as opposed to the receivership?
A It certainly indicates that there was depression
present at the time this was going on.
Q Did Mr. Baron also tell you that in a bankruptcy
hearing prior to the receivership the bankruptcy judge,
Judge Jurnigan, found that Mr. Baron had caused the
bankruptcy case to be filed for an improper purpose?
Namely, to avoid the contempt hearing that has been talked
about here a few minutes ago?
A No.
Q Would that be a fact you would need to know in
trying to determine whether or not the depression he is
suffering today is related to the receivership or not?
A That certainly would.
Q Did Mr. Baron tell you at some time prior to the
receivership he had been hospitalized in the emergency
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room as a result of anxiety he had about the hearing?
A No.
Q Would that be a significant factor in
determining whether or not the depression is caused by the
receivership or events that occurred before then?
A I would like to have seen those medical records,
yes.
MR. MACPETE: Thank you. Nothing else.
THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Golden.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. GOLDEN:
Q Doctor, during the original examination by
Mr. Barrett, he asked is Mr. Baron depressed, and you said
yes, and he said almost suicidal, and you said yes.
A I would say there is some indications of
suicidal behavior, yes.
Q Not suicidal?
A No in the sense that I think he ought to be on
the suicide watch, no.
Q In what sense?
A I feel like he should receive treatment for some
of the ideations that he's having at this time.
Q Is it your testimony that Mr. Baron was
depressed before the receivership?
A There is no way for me to know that. The fact
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that he tells me about the way he's been feeling, it seems
to have gotten precipitately worse fairly recently.
Q I'm not talking about better or worse. I'm
talking about when the depression started. Is it your
opinion that Mr. Baron suffered depression prior to the
receivership?
A Some of the things you said, yes, I would say he
was depressed but not this depressed.
Q So he was depressed before the receivership, and
he is depressed since the receivership, correct?
A Much more so, yes.
Q And you cannot testify that the causation of the
original depression was because of the receivership?
A Not the original causation but the precipitous
increase in it, I would say yes.
Q How depressed was Mr. Baron before the
receivership?
A I can't say that for certain, but I can say I
don't believe he was this depressed because I don't see
how he could have functioned.
Q He's at the point now where he can't function?
A Very close. He tripped the index in the
Rorschach test indicating he was having problems in
performing his day-to-day activities.
Q And it's your testimony that he should not be
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institutionalized?
A No, I don't think I would say that.
Q You came up with a treatment plan for Mr. Baron,
correct?
A No, I was not asked to do that. I recommended
that he receive treatment from a professional
psychologist.
Q What is the point of the treatment?
A To get at the cause of the depression and try
and alleviate it.
Q And if your recommendation for treatment is
correct and if the treatment succeeds, then the depression
will go to a lower level than it is right now, correct?
A That's correct.
MR. GOLDEN: Thank you.
THE COURT: Dr. Tetford, did you have give Mr.
Baron or his lawyers some names to choose from as far as
treatment?
THE WITNESS: I did recommend one or two, yes,
sir.
THE COURT: And you have certainly charged us
for your services, correct?
THE WITNESS: Mr. Baron has insurance which I
haven't gotten around to filing on. I haven't had time to
yet.
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THE COURT: Well, if there is anything beyond
that insurance, we have a receiver here who has money, and
we will pay you your full fee.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE COURT: You would agree with my instructions
to his lawyers that he see someone this week and begin a
course of treatment. Is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Definitely.
THE COURT: Well, I'm sure that would happen.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, may I ask one more
question?
THE COURT: You may.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Doctor, when you were talking about how
depressed Mr. Baron was and how there has been a
precipitous increase in his depression due to the
receivership, the only information you had about what his
depression was like before the receivership was the
information that Mr. Baron gave you, correct?
A That and I don't believe the current level of
depression could have been sustained for very long
previously.
MR. MACPETE: Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you very much. Dr. Tetford,
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thank you for being here. As I say, your services will be
reimbursed. And I would suggest, Mr. Barrett, that you
work with Dr. Tetford to make sure that if he has any
charges not paid by insurance that those matters be
submitted to the receiver.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir, I will. In fact,
Dr. Tetford, let me give you one of my cards, and I'll
make sure that you were reimbursed.
THE WITNESS: May I be excused?
THE COURT: You sure may. We thank you for
being here.
MR. BARRETT: May I call the next witness? We
call Gerritt Pronske.
THE COURT: Mr. Pronske, welcome. If you will
please come up.
THE COURT: Mr. Pronske, if you will approach
the witness stand, and Mr. Frye will swear you in.
(Sworn)
THE COURT: Mr. Pronske, I realize you
represented Mr. Baron. We have had three other lawyers in
court who have been witnesses and represented Mr. Baron.
My view is that Mr. Barrett by the course of his
examination of these lawyers has asked for attorney-client
information. Of course, if he wishes to do so on behalf
of Mr. Baron -- he's Mr. Baron's agent -- he can waive the
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attorney-client privilege. My view is in every instance
he has asked questions that certainly waive the
attorney-client privilege by asking about communications
the lawyer has with the client. He has the right to do
that as Mr. Baron's attorney. I'm doing this on a
witness-by-witness basis. He may not ask you questions
about your communications with Mr. Baron. And he may not
waive the attorney-client privilege, and so it will remain
intact as far as any further examination. But if he does
open that issue up -- He can't open it up with you and
then stop everybody else from asking those related
questions. So we will take it a step at a time, but I
depend want you to know my view is the attorney-client
privilege has been waived as to the other lawyers who have
testified, and we'll see if it's waived with you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Mr. Pronske, would you state your name for the
record?
A Gerritt Pronske.
Q And how are you presently employed?
A I'm an attorney with Pronske and Patel, PC.
Q And were you so employed back on or about July
23rd of 2010? Maybe long before that?
A Yes, sir.
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Q And how were you employed in connection with
Jeff Baron?
A The law firm represented Jeff Baron
individually.
Q And did you represent Mr. Baron personally?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who did you represent Mr. Baron on behalf
of?
A I don't understand the question. I have
represented Mr. Baron.
Q Personally in any and all matters that were
pending?
A There wasn't really a limitation, but the
primary purpose for my representation was in connection
with matters related to bankruptcy issues. I'm a
bankruptcy lawyer.
Q So you are a bankruptcy attorney, and you
represented him in the bankruptcy?
A Essentially that's correct, yes.
Q Now, did you have a written contract with
Mr. Baron?
A No.
Q Why is that?
A None was requested.
Q Is it your practice to have a written contract
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with clients?
A I do sometimes, and I don't sometimes.
Q It's a good practice to have a written contract,
isn't it?
A It can be. I haven't found the lack of a
contract ever to have been a problem prior to this case.
Q So you have never had a client complain that if
you didn't have a written contract and there is a variance
in what they believe the agreement was versus what you
believe the agreement was?
A That's correct.
Q Now, what was your contractual agreement, in
fact, with Mr. Baron on or about the time that you started
representing him?
A The initial contractual engagement was reached
with -- Actually it wasn't negotiated by Mr. Baron. It
was negotiated by Elizabeth Schurig in a conference call
that Mr. Baron was on. But the primary negotiation was
with Elizabeth Schurig. My request was that we represent
him with our normal hourly rates and that we be paid a
seventy-five thousand dollar retainer up front against
which we would bill. That was the initial terms of the
engagement.
Q So it's your testimony that the seventy-five
thousand dollars paid up front was for a retainer, not to,
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quote, wind up the bankruptcy?
A There is no question about that.
Q And certainly that was the issue with Jeff
Baron, as he claims, this was a flat fee that was paid to
wind up the bankruptcy.
A I have never heard that position being raised
until I saw it in a pleading, one, and two, you mentioning
it today. That's the only times I have heard that.
THE COURT: What kind of pleading, Mr. Pronske?
THE WITNESS: It was the pleading that was filed
in the state court prior to our -- We had filed a motion
to withdraw from the bankruptcy case because we were not
being paid. And there was a hearing on our withdrawal
which was being opposed, and there was a concern that we
were going to raise attorney-client privilege issues. So
an hour and a half before the hearing in front of Judge
Jurnigan, there was a lawsuit filed against us,
essentially a temporary restraining order, to prevent us
from disclosing information to Judge Jurnigan, and we
found out about the hearing about an hour and a half
before the hearing was supposed to be held, and we filed a
removal of that action to Judge Jurnigan prior to the
hearing being held in state court, and the hearing in
front of Judge Jurnigan did go forward at 1:30, and she
ordered me to testify to what I was going to testify to,
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and that was the pleading
Q We'll get there in a minute, Mr. Pronske. But
did you send out invoices regularly to Mr. Baron?
A No, I did not.
Q Why is that, sir?
A Because what I did instead -- And Mr. Baron knew
this. I apprised him as to where we were in the billing
during the case--
Q Let me stop you.
THE COURT: Wait, wait. Let him finish.
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, this is a multifarious
answer.
THE COURT: Wait, wait, wait. There is
multifarious questions, but I have never heard -- Are you
saying he's not responding to your question?
MR. BARRETT: Objection. Nonresponsive. I'm
trying to take this one at a time.
THE COURT: Okay. We'll go forward. It seems
very responsive to me.
MR. BARRETT: He's being very responsive, but
I'm trying to break it down one issue at a time. That's
the problem.
THE COURT: Well, you will have the opportunity
to give full answers. We're not going to break it down
one at a time without him having the opportunity to fairly
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answer. That's not fair to the witness. Ask your
question.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q You said you did not provide monthly invoices to
him?
A That's correct.
Q Why was that?
A What I was doing instead, I got behind on all of
my monthly invoices actually with all of my clients. I
have six lawyers at my firm, and during the middle of our
settlement process, I had three lawyers leave in one week,
two of them to have a baby within two days of each other,
and one actually left the firm. So I was very busy for a
three-month period, kind of on my own, and so what I did
was I apprised Mr. Baron on a regular basis of where we
were. I let him know when we were out of the retainer. I
let him know when we were up to sixty thousand dollars.
Q Let me stop you. Did you apprise him in
writing?
A No.
Q Did you document it in e-mails?
A Yes, there were some.
Q Do you have any of those e-mails?
A No. I wasn't asked to bring those today.
Q Have you ever submitted those e-mails to anyone
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showing that you apprised Mr. Baron that the attorneys'
fees were getting larger and larger?
THE COURT: Excuse me for my question. I guess
I don't understand the question. He has e-mails back and
forth with his client and you are asking him if he showed
those e-mails to anybody in the world? I don't understand
the question. Why would a lawyer just, say, pick somebody
off the street and say "Let me show you the e-mails I have
with my client"?
MR. BARRETT: Well, there have been allegations,
Judge --
THE COURT: That he has done that?
MR. BARRETT: He just said he has heard
allegations that there was a seventy-five thousand dollar
flat fee.
THE COURT: I am sorry. I am completely lost in
your cross examination right now. I don't understand it.
MR. BARRETT: All right. I will move on.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q But you didn't bring those with you, correct?
A That's correct.
THE COURT: Did you contact the witness and ask
him to bring the e-mails?
MR. BARRETT: No, we did not, your Honor.
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THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Now, in July -- On or about July 23rd -- Well,
when did you enter into your agreement with Mr. Baron?
A If you have my fee application that I filed with
the bankruptcy court, it would have the exact date. It
was somewhere in the neighborhood of August of 2009, but
the better answer to that question would be to look at the
billing statement that is on that fee application because
it has the first date.
Q August 2009 is a ballpark?
A It's a ballpark, right.
Q And it was not until July 23rd, 2010 that you
sent him your first invoice, correct?
A I think that's right. Not July 23rd. It was
earlier than that but not by much earlier. I think it was
actually in June.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, I have a copy of
Mr. Pronske's fee application if that would be helpful for
anybody.
THE COURT: I don't know if it should be entered
in evidence, but maybe you could let Mr. Pronske see it so
that he could have it in front of him.
MR. BARRETT: Approach the witness, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
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BY MR. BARRETT
Q Let me show you what's been marked as Movant's
Exhibit Number 3 and ask you if you recognize that would
document.
A Yes, I do.
Q Is that a copy of the invoice that you sent
Mr. Baron?
A It is a copy of an invoice I sent him. I'm not
sure if it's the -- I sent him an e-mail like this twice,
and I'm not sure if this is the first or second one.
Q This particular e-mail is dated July 23rd, 2010;
is that correct?
A Yes. Actually if you show that to me, I think I
can tell you whether that's the first or second. I just
remembered something.
This is the first e-mail.
MR. BARRETT: I would move to admit Baron
Number 3, your Honor.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, could I see that?
MR. GOLDEN: No objection.
THE COURT: It's admitted.
MR. BARRETT: May I use this exhibit, your
Honor?
THE COURT: Certainly. If you wouldn't mind
letting the witness look over your shoulder.
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BY MR. BARRETT
Q Mr. Pronske, this invoice to Jeff indicates this
is your firm's bill and that the total outstanding is
$217,452.
A Actually it says two hundred seventeen thousand.
Q Four hundred fifty-two dollars less ten thousand
dollars, correct?
A Correct.
Q So leaving the total balance at $195,452?
A At that time. And that's the reason I knew this
is the first one because the second one had an amount of
two hundred forty-one thousand dollars. So it was higher
than this.
Q And the second one was what? Within a month of
this?
A You would have to show me. That sounds about
right.
Q Very soon after this one, correct?
A Within a month.
Q So you have no contract with Mr. Baron --
THE COURT: Would it be appropriate to say he
has no written --
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q You have no written contract with Mr. Baron.
You send him no invoices for almost a year, and then you
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sent him a bill for two hundred thousand dollars. Is that
your testimony, sir?
A With the addition, I told you I regularly told
him where we were with the billing, and I have four
specific examples that I recall that I can be very
detailed about, but I regularly apprised him where we
were, and he had a full understanding and promised to pay
all during the process.
Q Okay. Now, when you didn't get your money from
Jeff Baron, you were more than a little bit mad, weren't
you?
A More than a little bit mad is very subjective.
I was shocked. And the reasons he was telling me I knew
were not true.
Q Did you ever say you are going to use a scorched
earth policy against Jeff Baron?
A Not that I recall. But if you can show me I
said that -- I don't recall saying that. That's not
something that's in my normal vocabulary.
Q But you wouldn't deny it?
A I would have a hard time saying I would use
those words. That's not in my vocabulary, and that's not
the normal way that I practice law. But if you have
something showing I said it, you know, I was very unhappy
that I had spent three months working almost one hundred
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percent of my practice time at a time when my time was
very scarce in my law firm. And Jeff Baron repeatedly
promised I was going to be paid, and then he told me there
wasn't enough money. So I was very, very unhappy.
Q But you did receive seventy-five thousand from
him?
A A year earlier which ran out in January or
February, and the bulk of the billing started in the
beginning of January 2010 when the retainer was gone.
Q You did use a scorched earth policy against him,
didn't you?
A I take issue with that.
Q Let's talk about that. First of all, you filed
a motion to withdraw?
A That's correct.
Q And you made some allegations in that motion
that are very inflammatory?
A You and I may disagree on what's inflammatory.
If you want to tell me what I said, I may agree.
Q Didn't you say I have to withdraw because I just
learned of some possible criminal conduct that Jeff Baron
may be engaging in and my ethical obligations cause me to
have to withdraw and then you subsequently did?
A Did not say that. Absolutely did not say that.
THE COURT: Well, surely if there is a motion on
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file, let's look at the motion.
A I didn't say I had to withdraw because of that.
I said I needed a quick hearing on withdrawal because he
was planning on moving money offshore so no creditors
could reach that money. So that's the details. I needed
a quick hearing because I knew there were things about to
happen with money that would put them out of the United
States potentially not to be reached by creditors.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q And you didn't say specifically that you
believed there were possible criminal actions on the part
of Jeff Baron and that caused you some ethical problems
that you had to withdraw at that time?
A Absolutely not.
THE COURT: Can we look at the motion to
withdraw?
A The reason for which withdrawal had nothing to
do with that. The reason for withdrawal was he told me he
had no money to pay me.
MR. BARRETT: May I have a second, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
THE COURT: By the way, of course, the
attorney-client privilege has been waived.
MR. LYON: Your Honor, Docket 419.
THE COURT: On the bankruptcy docket?
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MR. LYON: Yes, sir
THE WITNESS: It's the motion to expedite.
THE COURT: Appreciate you being back there,
Mr. Lyon. What about the motion to expedite?
MR. LYON: 423.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Mr. Pronske, you don't specifically recall in
that motion --
THE COURT: We're talking about the motion to
expedite?
MR. BARRETT: The motion to expedite, your
Honor. Sorry. Motion for expedited hearing on emergency
motion to withdraw.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q You don't recall in that motion specifically
that you stated that you and/or your firm has "recently
learned that Baron intends to hide his assets offshore as
early as September 15th of 2010. Thus, the hearing will
need to move forward expeditiously to prevent Mr. Baron's
unlawful activities"?
A I think that's exactly what I just said a minute
ago.
Q So you essentially said that he had committed
criminal conduct here?
A Why don't you read that again and ask me the
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question again.
Q Thus, the hearing will have to move forward
expeditiously to prevent Mr. Baron's unlawful activities?
A At a future date. I knew that he was going to
be moving money offshore for the sole purpose of the
Courts of United States not having jurisdiction over that
money. And that was the reason that Mr. Baron filed a
lawsuit against me, a restraining order, preventing me
from saying that in Judge Jurnigan's court, and later
Judge Jurnigan ordered me to testify what I knew about
that which I did.
Q And when you testified in Judge Jurnigan's
court, you led her to believe that Jeff Baron was
secreting assets offshore in the Cook Islands, didn't you?
THE COURT: Do we have a transcript of what he
testified to?
MR. BARRETT: I have it right here.
THE COURT: You may approach Mr. Pronske and
show him his testimony.
MR. BARRETT: Just for identification purposes,
I am going to mark this Movant's Number 5.
THE COURT: 4.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Mr. Pronske, do you recall back on September
22nd of 2010 testifying in front of the Honorable Stacy
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Jurnigan?
A I don't think I was testifying. I think I was
at the podium as a lawyer trying to get my motion to
withdraw approved.
Q Okay. And do you recall, in fact, making some
representations to Judge Jurnigan?
A I recall making representations to Judge
Jurnigan, yes.
Q And do you recall essentially stating to the
Court at that time -- and by the way, Mr. Pronske, you
had --
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, may I say it from here
or should I step back to the podium if I have just a
couple of questions for Mr. Pronske?
THE COURT: If they are unrelated to the
transcript of the hearing, surely return to the podium.
MR. BARRETT: Okay.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q By the way, Mr. Pronske, you yourself helped
negotiate this transfer of assets in the Cook Islands from
one trustee to the other trustee, didn't you?
A No, I didn't.
Q Oh, really, you didn't?
A That's what I said.
Q So you didn't help in negotiating that
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settlement agreement?
A First of all, I strongly advised Mr. Baron on
probably a weekly basis not to move money to foreign
jurisdictions, told him in my opinion it did not work and
he would be very, very familiar with all the admonishments
I gave him not to do that and the reasons why. And he
would remember I cited for him California cases and
Florida case where defendants had been put in jail for
contempt for not repatriating assets, and therefore, I
didn't believe the concept worked. I tried to find
alternatives. I advised him to see tax lawyers to set up
other alternatives including partnerships and family
partnerships that would be legal in United States
jurisdictions. I thought those would work. I thought
moving assets to foreign jurisdictions does not work and
would subject him to problems from the federal courts,
from the Internal Revenue Service and the bankruptcy
court.
Q Okay.
A And I told him not to do it, and no, I did not
negotiate any of those things. And he would, I'm sure,
remember every bit of that.
Q So Dean Ferguson didn't finish up the settlement
agreement that you drafted?
THE COURT: Wait a minute. There has been a non
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sequitur here. I understood you were talking to him about
the setting up of the trustee offshore.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir. And he said he didn't
participate in the settlement agreement which essentially
agreed upon all of those transfers.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. I missed that.
MR. BARRETT: He said that he had nothing to do
with that settlement agreement which is in direct conflict
with Mr. Ferguson's testimony.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. I missed that. I heard
him say he didn't have anything to do with the transfer
from one trustee to another. I didn't hear him say he had
nothing to do with the settlement agreement. Let's just
ask him. Mr. Pronske, did I not hear you correctly?
THE WITNESS: No, your Honor, you heard me
correctly.
THE COURT: Did you have anything to do with the
settlement agreement itself?
THE WITNESS: Almost every one of the one
hundred twenty-five pages, yes.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q So you did have something to do with the
settlement agreement?
A Every day for about four months. So yes.
Q And the settlement agreement essentially set all
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of this up?
A No.
Q It doesn't?
A No.
Q So in the settlement agreement there is no
reference to the trust in the Cook Islands?
A There is reference to the current trust that was
in the Cook Islands resigning, and there was a reference
to something new being set up, but it had not been set up
by the time I withdrew.
Q But everybody knew what was going on?
A I don't understand that question.
THE COURT: I'm sorry that I'm lost here. There
is a difference between removing one trustee in the Cook
Islands and appointing another trustee and hiding assets
offshore. You seem to be joining them together.
MR. BARRETT: Well, there is a reason for that,
Judge.
THE COURT: I have completely lost your train of
thought right now.
MR. BARRETT: Let me clarify right now.
THE COURT: That would be helpful.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Sir, in fact, did you later after you approved
that settlement agreement and helped to draft that
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settlement agreement -- did you later represent in front
of Judge Jurnigan that you thought that Jeff Baron was
possibly going to engage in illegal activities?
A I believed that he was going to be moving assets
to a jurisdiction that would be beyond the jurisdiction of
the creditors in the United States and the federal courts
in the United States. And I may have characterized that
as improper and illegal. That's what I would have been
referring to.
Q And do you stand by that today?
A Absolutely.
Q And is that based on something Jeff Baron told
you apparently?
A What?
Q What is that based on, your statements in there?
A My knowledge that he was working with a trustee
in the Cook Islands. I don't remember the name of the
person, but I knew it at the time. And there was
testimony about it at that September 22nd, 2010 hearing.
But that person was being used to transfer assets
offshore. And I knew that more from looking at the web
site after I withdrew as counsel, looking at the web site
of that trustee and the attorney in the United States that
was assisting because it was very clear on the web site
that's what they were doing, and that was the purpose for
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their being involved.
Q Are you talking about that you looked at the web
site and saw the different addresses of the trustee?
A That's not what I was looking for.
Q I'm sorry.
A I'm talking about there was an attorney involved
in Dallas. I think he was on Oak Lawn. I can't remember
his name. But he was being used -- And this is after I
withdrew. He was being used to set up the trust in the
Cook Islands, and then there was the name of the trustee
and the trust in the Cook Islands which I looked up, and
it appeared their sole purpose because they for lack of
better words bragged about the fact that if you set the
trust up with us it will not be subject to the
jurisdiction of the United States. So I knew this was
that type of trust, and I knew that Mr. Baron had the
intention to try to find a trustee in a jurisdiction that
would not be reachable by the Courts of the United States.
Q Okay.
A And that's what I told Judge Jurnigan at that
hearing. And the reason we told the judge that is we
wanted our hearing expedited because we were concerned
that money was going to get moved and that we were going
to be unable to protect our interests after the money was
in another jurisdiction, and that's what resulted in Judge
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Jurnigan forcing Mr. Baron to put three hundred thirty
thousand dollars in the trustee's account as sort of a
secure fund in the United States.
Q Now, what specifically did you learn that caused
you to file an expedited emergency motion?
A I learned that Mr. Baron was working with that
particular trustee in the Cook Islands to set that trust
up.
Q Wait a second. You hadn't had any contact with
Mr. Baron in months, had you?
A I wouldn't say that I hadn't had contacts with
him in -- Let's be specific.
Q When is the last time you had contact with
Mr. Baron?
A It would have been somewhere towards the very
end of July.
Q July of when?
A Of 2010. And our motion to withdraw I think --
Well, I have the motion to expedite in front of me. It
was probably filed in August, maybe September. It was
filed September the 9th.
Q All right.
A And the motion to withdraw was filed prior to
that.
Q So two months. You haven't had contact with
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him?
A Month and a half, yes.
Q Month and a half and all of a sudden there is
something that happens that causes you to have some sort
of an emergency that you learn of that that you have to
have an expedited hearing. What is that fact?
A The fact that I knew Mr. Baron was trying to
move his assets offshore outside the jurisdiction of the
United States. And as I said, we had numerous discussions
about that.
Q Let me stop you there. You had been
representing Mr. Baron for months, and you knew everything
that was going on with these trusts, correct?
A No, I didn't know everything that was going on
with these trusts. If you want to be more specific. I
can't testify I knew everything that was going on. That's
not correct.
Q Well, you are a diligent lawyer, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you were spending a lot of your time on this
case?
A Yes.
Q And you were trying to learn as much as possible
about the structure of the Village Trust and how it
operated, correct?
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A No, that's definitely not correct.
Q Well, tell me what you were trying to get up to
speed on?
A That's a very difficult question, as I'm sure
most lawyers that work on this case could also testify to.
This is one of the most conflicted settlements. I think
there were sixteen lawyers actively involved in it, and I
think every one of those sixteen would say this is one of
the most complicated transactions they have ever been
involved in. There was a very complicated organizational
chart that included the trusts, but that's not something
that I needed to know backwards and forwards, the
structure of all of this. There were other issues that
were -- take a look through the hundred-and-whatever-page
document. It didn't really deal much with that issue.
Q Fair enough. What issue is it -- Again, I'm
driving at what specific issue was it that you learned in
the month and a half that you had no contact with Jeff
Baron that caused you to need an emergency motion to
withdraw and come in and become an adverse witness against
Jeff and say, Judge, I learned of criminal activity
against my client that is going on right now. What was
it?
MR. MACPETE: I object to the question as
mischaracterizing the testimony of the witness. He
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repeatedly denied he accused Mr. Baron of criminal
activity.
THE COURT: There is nothing in the files I see
that says criminal activity. Activity can be illegal, but
not criminal. If you find something in the files that
says criminal, please show it to me because I haven't
heard or seen anything about it. I'm talking about the
word "criminal." Mr. Barrett, you used the word
"criminal" all the time.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, when Mr. Barrett was
looking I was curious what the Court's end time is today
given we're now at three o'clock.
THE COURT: That's a good question. How much
more time do you need with Mr. Pronske?
MR. BARRETT: Probably thirty minutes, Judge.
THE COURT: So you have almost no time for any
other witnesses. 3:30 we're going to hear from Mr. Baron.
It sounds like to me this is your last witness. Is that
right?
MR. BARRETT: Yes, him and Mr. Baron.
THE COURT: I'll give you twenty minutes to
conclude.
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Judge.
BY MR. BARRETT
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Q Now, Mr. Pronske, you sent a bunch of e-mails
recommending the Cook Islands trustee, didn't you?
A No, I didn't. I wouldn't know who to recommend.
That was not part of my function.
THE COURT: If you have those e-mails, perhaps
you could show them to Mr. Pronske, and he can familiarize
himself with them.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir, I'm going through them
right now. This is Exhibit 6.
THE COURT: What was Exhibit 5? I've got Mr.
Chesnin's e-mails are 1 and 2. Mr. Pronske's e-mails
about the fees are 3, and Mr. Pronske's presentation to
withdraw is 4.
MR. BARRETT: So this must be 5.
THE COURT: What is 5?
MR. BARRETT: 5 is an e-mail from Mr. Pronske to
Ms. Elizabeth Schurig.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Let me show you what's been marked as Movant
Exhibit 5 and ask you if you recognize that.
A Yes, I do.
Q Is that an e-mail from yourself to Elizabeth
Schurig?
A It is.
Q And in fact, does that indicate, from you to Ms.
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Schurig that you all may have found an alternative trustee
for the Cook Islands?
A It does. And this is a completely different
situation and time frame. This is in April before any of
the discussions you are talking about, about moving assets
offshore. This was a situation where Elizabeth Schurig
who was the lawyer for the trust and the trustee and
Mr. Baron had had a clash because Mr. Baron didn't want to
pay her anymore and didn't want to pay her numerous sets
of attorneys including the Holman Summers (phonetic) firm
and Craig Capua's law firm and one other law firm, and
they wanted to quit and not be involved anymore and needed
an alternative trustee for the trust that was already set
up, and so I contacted a lawyer that's actually in the
courtroom today.
Q Who would that be?
A Mr. Martin Thomas, who knew of lawyers or
trustee that worked in the Cook Islands because of a
client, and I needed and I asked him who would be an
alternative trustee, and he gave me that name. This was
before the structure and the assets were being moved.
This trust had already appeared, and the United States had
already broken its jurisdictional issues, and this was
basically appointing a new trustee over a trust that the
United States already had jurisdiction over. The other
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action is completely --
Q Mr. Pronske, I guess I'm not understanding.
What trust would this alternative trustee with Ms. Schurig
have you been regarding?
A Ms. Schurig represented the Village Trust.
Q The Village Trust, right. And that's the same
trust the settlement agreement refers to when it's talking
about finding a new trustee?
A What I learned after I withdraw as counsel is
that the assets were going to be moved to another trust
with a new trustee who I don't remember the name of with
the lawyer in Dallas that officed on Oak Lawn that I don't
recall the name of, and this was going to be basically
moving it to a different trust with a different trustee to
reset it up to make it be shielding itself from the
liabilities of creditors in the United States. The old
trust had already submitted to the jurisdiction of the
United States Court. So this was going to be a new
situation. That's what caused my concern -- We had no
concern that we were going to be able to reach assets of
the Village Trust because they had already appeared in
various proceedings. The concern was there was going to
be a new trust in the Cook Islands that was going to be
properly formed, and there would be no way to reach the
assets of that trust. And that was in a time frame of
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September 2010. This e-mail is from April.
Q That's from what?
A April 15th, 2010.
Q What about March 30th?
A Well, that would have been even earlier than
this.
Q Okay.
A The problems between Mr. Baron an Ms. Schurig
arose prior to that where there was a very significant
problem where she was not getting paid what she wanted,
and she was joined very carefully to the trustee in the
Cook Islands, and they were both going to quit.
Q What about July 9th, 2010?
A I don't know.
MR. BARRETT: Approach the witness?
THE COURT: What exhibit is this?
MR. BARRETT: 6.
THE COURT: This is another Pronske e-mail?
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Let me show you that and ask you if you
recognize that.
A Yes, I remember this pretty well actually.
Q Does that surprise you?
A No.
Q That is an e-mail from Elizabeth Schurig dated
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Friday, July 9th, 2010?
A I think you are right, yes.
THE COURT: That's not a Pronske e-mail?
MR. BARRETT: No, it's not. It's an e-mail from
Elizabeth Schurig to Mr. Pronske.
A And yes, I did say -- Do you want to ask me that
question?
Q No, sir.
THE COURT: Go ahead and ask your next question.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q And certainly that references the Village Trust,
does it not?
A I think it does. She represented the Village
Trust. That was her client.
Q And attached is an e-mail to the trustee,
correct? Attached is an e-mail to the trustee?
A From who?
Q Her.
MR. MACPETE: I object on hearsay grounds.
We're talking about an e-mail Ms. Schurig drafted, not
Mr. Pronske.
THE COURT: Is that the --
MR. BARRETT: I'm not offering it.
THE COURT: So that won't be Exhibit 6. Exhibit
6 will be another exhibit.
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BY MR. BARRETT
Q Does that indicate that the trustee fees are
estimated at a certain amount?
THE COURT: I'm sorry. I'm lost. What trustee
are we talking about.
MR. BARRETT: The trustee for the Village Trust,
your Honor.
THE COURT: I have completely lost the train
again. Why are we -- Why are we dealing with this
particular exhibit? I don't know.
MR. BARRETT: I'll withdraw the exhibit. I'll
just withdraw the exhibit. I think it is confusing,
Judge.
THE COURT: You and I are on the same wavelength
there.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Now, Mr. Pronske, you would agree with me, would
you not, that going over to the bankruptcy court and
representing essentially that Mr. Baron has been engaged
in wrongdoing or is getting ready potentially to move
assets offshore and that you have just learned about this
information and it's an emergency would be alarming to
Judge Jurnigan. Would you agree with that?
A I don't know that I would use the word
"alarming." She's a seasoned, extremely competent,
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intelligent bankruptcy judge, and my intention wasn't to
alarm her but to inform her that there were rights that
were about to be taken away from us because of the
circumstances.
Q Do you think she was alarmed by it?
A I think that she reacted to it with appropriate
temperament and as a reaction to that and many other
things that were brought to her attention that concerned
her greatly -- including there were over twenty-five
lawyers that hadn't been paid and which she thought may
involve theft of services -- she put a fund of three
hundred thirty thousand dollars aside to be in compliance
with the settlement agreement. I can't say she was
alarmed. It was in front of her, and she reacted
appropriately.
Q Was any money ever moved offshore?
A Well, it's interesting you ask. I saw the
e-mail chain the day the receiver was appointed, and the
receiver requested the trustee not to move or spend any
assets and the trustee in the Cook Islands immediately
responded back they were completely beyond the
jurisdiction of the United States. I will tell you that
what I was concerned about and what I told Judge Jurnigan
was happening happened.
Q That's a legal agreement. Whether there is a
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treaty between the Cook Islands, that's a legal issue?
A It's a legal issue, and sir, it's also very much
a strategic issue. The reason the assets are put where
there is no treaty is so that there will be no
jurisdiction so the creditors of the United States cannot
reach those assets. So it's a mixed bag.
Q But that has nothing to do with moving assets
offshore from the United States?
A It effectively does.
Q It's the opposite?
A It's really not.
Q So in your mind that was the same as moving
assets offshore. That was one in the same thing?
A It was moving assets from a trust that had
submitted to the jurisdiction of the United States to a
new trust that was being formulated in the Cook Islands
that would not be subject to the jurisdiction of the
United States. That's as clear as I can be.
Q Do you know the purpose for moving the trust?
A Yes, I do.
Q What was it?
A The primary purpose was to shield the assets
from the jurisdiction of the United States and to make
sure that no creditors -- especially possible litigants
that John MacPete might represent in the future -- would
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have the ability to recover against those assets because
they would be away from the jurisdiction of the United
States.
Q Well, that would be absolutely totally,
absolutely illegal, would it not?
A If that's what you tell me.
Q Wouldn't that be illegal?
A I think it does what it's intended to do which
is to put the assets out of the jurisdiction of the United
States.
Q Do you believe that would be illegal or not?
A I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that. Yes,
I did use the word illegal in the motion to expedite. So
I suppose that's what I meant. But I certainly think
there is a host of serious problems with it, and
illegality would be one.
Q And you would have known about that the entire
time you were dealing with Mr. Baron?
A That's not true. I knew about the trust that
had submitted to the jurisdiction of the United States.
As I said, I counseled him I can't tell you how many times
not to move assets beyond the reach of the creditors in
the United States because I didn't think it would work and
would cause serious problems.
Q But yet you signed off on the settlement
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agreement?
A I did.
Q And you could have withdrawn that --
THE COURT: Let him finish his answer. You
signed off on the settlement agreement. And you were
about to say something else.
A The settlement agreement does not provide for
the transfer of assets beyond jurisdiction of the United
States. What it provides for, if you want to know, is the
current lawyers quit saying they wouldn't work with
Mr. Baron because he wouldn't pay anybody and it required
a new mechanism be set up. And as of the time, I withdrew
that mechanism was not set up, and in fact, that mechanism
was not formalized until probably around the time I filed
my motion to expedite and I learned that was being
formulated with a Cook Islands trust and a Cook Islands
trustee, and that's what caused us to file that expedited
motion.
Q You are saying "mechanism." Is there anything
illegal about transferring from one trust to another?
A It's really out of my area to tell you whether
that's illegal or not. I think there is serious problems
with it.
Q You put that in your motion, didn't you?
A Yes, I did.
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Q And that was certainly alarming, correct?
A It wasn't intended to alarm, and I don't know
how it was taken.
Q And you got up and told Judge Jurnigan in a
hearing when Mr. Baron was there that Mr. Baron was doing
all of these things, didn't you?
A After they asserted attorney-client privilege
and the judge ordered me to tell what I knew about it, I
did.
Q And that was alarming to Judge Jurnigan?
A I can't say that it was alarming because I can't
crawl inside her head. I know that she heard those facts
and made a reasonable decision based upon the facts in
front of her. That's all I can say.
Q Are you a bankruptcy attorney?
A Yes.
Q Are you familiar with the Bankruptcy Code?
A Yes.
Q Are you familiar with Rule 903, Title 11?
A Refresh me as to what the rule says.
THE COURT: You have about five minutes.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q It's for a report and recommendation to a
district court, that somebody be authorized?
A Yes, I'm familiar.
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Q In fact, was Peter Vogel authorized to negotiate
the attorneys' fees in this case?
A Yes.
Q And did he do that?
A No. When you say this case, do you mean my
adversary with Mr. Baron.
Q Yes.
A Okay.
Q And could that possibly have resolved this
mediation?
MR. MACPETE: Object to speculation. He can't
know whether it would or not.
THE COURT: You said the process didn't work.
THE WITNESS: The process never got completed.
Mr. Baron didn't want to use Mr. Vogel as a mediator and
said they were going to file a motion for consideration
and oppose that and ask me to consider other mediators.
My position is I will mediate with anybody. In fact, I
like to mediate with somebody I like, and we found Joyce
Lindauer, and we filed a motion with Judge Jurnigan
appointing Ms. Lindauer, and it took over a month to get
the order to allow that to go forward. We scheduled
September 10th at nine o'clock in the morning to do the
mediation, and the receiver was appointed prior to the
mediation going forward. So the mediation never happened.
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BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Did you ever receive a copy of the notice of
withdrawal of the transmittal of reference? That's what
it was called. It's really the report and recommendation
to the Court.
A I'm not sure I saw that.
MR. BARRETT: May I approach the witness, your
Honor?
THE COURT: Okay. You have two or three
minutes. He has never seen it.
MR. BARRETT: I better save this for another
witness.
THE COURT: Save it for Mr. Baron.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, I better do that.
BY MR. BARRETT:
Q Would you agree with me, sir, if you
misrepresented things to Judge Jurnigan that's a serious
matter?
A Of course.
Q And if you had a conflict of interest at the
time that you went into court and were an adversary to
Jeff Baron, that's a serious matter?
A You know, I'm not sure I would -- All of these
are serious matters, but I'm not sure I would agree with
you that there was anything improper with going to request
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to withdraw as counsel, and I don't think there was
anything that would have been improper to tell the Court
because that motion was opposed -- to the court why we
needed that on an expedited basis. We were about to lose
our rights to recover any money. And I think the
disciplinary rules back up everything we did along those
lines. And we certainly researched that.
Q Okay. Real quickly. I know you have your
problems with Jeff Baron, but would you agree with me
there have been a lot of problems with the attorneys in
this case in addition to the problems with Mr. Baron?
A Well, that's a difficult question to answer. I
would say that this was a very difficult negotiation and
that every party that was involved had very specific
interests and very specific things that they were trying
to accomplish, and it was a very difficult negotiation.
MR. BARRETT: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Mr. Roossien may have a few
questions. Do you, sir?
MR. ROOSSIEN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: How much time do you need,
Mr. Roossien? Twenty minutes?
MR. ROOSSIEN: That should be sufficient.
THE COURT: I want to try to get Mr. Pronske off
if I can at four or at least by four.
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MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, I went ahead and
marked the motion for expedited hearing as Respondent
Number 51. May I approach the witness, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Mr. Pronske, are you familiar with Exhibit 51?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are the statements in it true?
A Yes, sir.
Q That's all I have on that.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I'll ask the Court to take a look
at Exhibit 1 which is in our binder. If I may approach.
THE COURT: You may.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Mr. Pronske, can you tell me what Exhibit 1 is?
A It's an organizational chart of all the various
entities that are ultimately beneficially owned by
Mr. Baron that work together to manage and operate the
domain name business.
Q Is this a structure that was in place at the
time you were negotiating the settlement agreement?
A I'm looking at it in a detailed manner. The one
that we used that I recall was not -- let's say as pretty
as this one. But I think it was the same one, and it
would definitely be the same structure, yes.
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MR. ROOSSIEN: We offer Exhibit 1.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, I object on the
grounds of hearsay. I think this witness doesn't actually
have knowledge to be able to testify to that structure,
and in fact, the witness' testimony about what the
structure represents is actually inaccurate -- sorry
Gerritt -- but there are the entities on that piece of
paper that relate to my clients that are not entities --
or Mr. Baron's entities. So I have to object to the
entry.
THE COURT: Well, I think your objection goes
less to the admissibility, and I will certainly let you
clarify any matters you wish to on the exhibit
MR. ROOSSIEN: So it is admitted?
THE COURT: It is.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q I'll let you clarify. On the left side is the
Village Trust.
A And then the MMSK Trust.
Q Who is that?
A That's Mr. MacPete's client. I sort of lumped
them together.
Q You understand the underlying litigation before
Judge Ferguson is essentially a business divorce relating
to these two entities relating to the operation of the
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domain names industry. So the MMSK and the Village Trust
are the two at the top of the chart. The MMSK Trust, the
beneficial interest is with Munish Krishan and those
entities that Mr. MacPete represents, and the Village
Trust is the Baron side of the fence. So he's correct on
that.
THE COURT: Does that clarify it, Mr. MacPete?
MR. MACPETE: Well, I would say that's
Mr. Baron's litigation position about what occurred. We
don't agree that structure was ever properly consummated
and that's what Mr. Baron agreed to in the settlement
agreement, that that was never consummated. So as long as
it's clear to the Court that this is Mr. Baron's original
position about the alleged joint business, I'm fine with
it.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Judge, I'm simply offering it for
the purpose of showing that Mr. Baron was someone who used
Cook Islands trusts.
THE COURT: I think that's pretty clear from the
testimony today.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q How long have you been practicing, sir?
A Twenty-nine years.
Q And the triggering event in August that led to
you being concerned and asking for an expedited
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consideration, was that formation of a whole new set of
trusts besides those in Exhibit 1?
A That's what I understood. That's correct.
Q Have you ever -- During the year that you worked
with Mr. Baron, have you ever observed what you would
consider to be irrational or behavior on his part?
A Well, I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist.
I think there were a lot of -- I think this is a difficult
case for Mr. Baron. And I think that -- You know, I don't
know what you mean by irrational, but I think it was a
difficult case.
Q He was put under extreme pressure, was he not?
A Yes.
Q And your wife, if I understand it, is degreed in
some manner in psychology?
A Yes. She has a Ph.D in psychology.
Q Did the behavior you were observing cause you to
consult with her as to what you were observing?
A Yes.
Q The time that you spent with Mr. Baron,
particularly you talked about from March forward, would it
be fair to say it was pretty extensive and intense as far
as the volume of services?
A Probability more so than any client I have ever
represented.
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Q And I think you mentioned it was including the
weekends constantly?
A Especially the month of June. I think each of
the weekends was fully engaged eight to ten hours each
Saturday and each Sunday with the settlement negotiations.
And that was with all the lawyers.
Q That's my next question. What was going on with
you and Mr. Baron was also going on with all the other
lawyers in the case. Is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Now, after the settlement was reached and
approved by the bankruptcy court in July, did Mr. Baron's
attitude toward the settlement almost immediately change?
A I would say Mr. Baron always wanted conceptually
or in a big picture way to settle the case. But he was --
It was very difficult to get him to agree to most points
that we negotiated, as it was difficult with the other
side, too. It was a very difficult negotiation amongst I
think all the parties and all the lawyers. I will say I
think Mr. Baron -- Once the case was settled I heard a lot
of things from him that led me to believe that he did not
want to go forward with the settlement. And if -- but
that didn't start then. It probably intensified then.
But that kind of under current was there for the whole
time.
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Q So this was something that Mr. Baron struggled
with during the entire time?
A Absolutely. With every issue we had. No matter
how large or small an issue.
Q Do you believe that Mr. Baron rather than trying
to settle up with you simply got new counsel?
A Mr. Baron told me on a number of occasions that
he intended to pay me, and I have text messages from him
around the time I withdrew that says the problem was with
the money to pay, not with the issue of whether there was
money owing or the services. It was he wanted to stretch
the bill out and pay it overtime and he had promised
numerous times before that that the bill would be paid
immediately an promptly and so that was something I heard
for the first time. I knew there were problems with Mr.
Baron not paying a lot of other lawyers. I really didn't
think I was going to have that problem, although that was
probably more my naivete than anything else.
Q And did you advise Mr. Baron along the way as
the bill was growing roughly where the bill was?
A Yes, I did. And as I said earlier, I remember
four times very specifically that we had discussions about
where the bill was during the process. But I know that
there were more than that, and he was apprised along the
way as to where the bill was.
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Q And I notice Judge Jurnigan in her report and
recommendations, second page, says that "His conduct
suggests a pattern of perhaps being motivated by an
improper purpose with regard to nonpayment of lawyers."
What is your point of view on that?
A From what I have seen -- And in fact it seems to
have increased geometrically since I have been withdrawn.
And from what I know about his situation with not paying
numerous other attorneys is that there is a pattern of
using attorneys until a bill is submitted and then not
paying that bill and getting as much out of that attorney
as he can and then finding a problem with what they have
done with the intention to not pay that attorney. And I
have seen that. I could give you probably at least ten
examples of situations like that that I have seen.
Q Let me have you take a look at Exhibit 17.
Exhibit 17 is a short list of the substantial contribution
claims. What I wanted to ask you about is, your claim one
of those listed on Exhibit 17?
A Yes, sir.
Q And Judge Jurnigan talks about the risk of
exposing state administrative claims. Would that include
your substantial contribution claim?
A Yes.
Q So in bankruptcy a substantial contribution
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claim is considered an administrative expense, is it not?
A Yes.
Q And I realize it's not exactly like the
trustee's fees, but it falls in that category?
A Yes, sir.
Q And the judge also talks about whether or not
she's concerned that Baron is going to complete his
obligations under the settlement agreement, and this is
based upon several of the developments in the September
time frame she witnessed. By the time we get to
September, would it be fair to say by your observation
Mr. Baron was indicating he did not want to complete the
settlement agreement?
A That's what appeared.
Q And would you elaborate on that a little bit?
A During the process of settling and after the
case was settled, there were continual issues coming up
where Mr. Baron said he did not want to go forward with
the settlement. And that happened before the settlement,
maybe as often as two or three times a week. It was very
prevalent during the whole process. It was there with
every issue, no matter how small, even if in the big
picture it didn't seem to be an impasse. That's what made
a lot of the settlement negotiations difficult. And I'm
not saying just on his side. It was a difficult
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negotiation, as I said. After the settlement was reached,
immediately after the settlement was reached, Mr. Baron
appeared not to want to go forward with the settlement and
was raising issues with problems in the settlement and
said he was better off not doing the settlement and
believed he was going to be sued by Mr. MacPete in some
form or fashion with Mr. MacPete finding clients to
represent to litigate against him and thought that was
going to be his downfall and demise and thought the
settlement hurt him along those lines and wanted to undo
the settlement after it was over with.
THE COURT: And after the settlement was signed?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q And after it was approved by the bankruptcy
court?
A Yes.
Q It's interesting you mention that about Mr.
MacPete. Does Mr. Baron sometimes view the opposing
counsel as an enemy?
A Oh, yes. There is no question about that.
Q He makes things very personal. Is that
accurate?
A I think Mr. Baron from what he told me he had a
lot more problems with Mr. MacPete than he did with
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Mr. MacPete's clients.
Q Now, in the bankruptcy itself, is it fair to say
that most of the claims against Ondova, Mr. Baron's former
company, were actually claims made by unpaid lawyers?
A Yes, the vast majority of the dollar amount of
claims were by lawyers, yes, sir.
MR. ROOSSIEN: May I ask the Court to take a
look at Exhibit 16.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q What is Exhibit 16?
A It appears to be an exhibit that lines out the
pre-bankruptcy claims filed by various attorneys that were
unpaid by Mr. Baron.
Q Okay. Does the total there at the bottom of
just under seven hundred thousand dollars seem about right
given your familiarity with bankruptcy?
A It does as far as the resolved amounts. They
were actually substantially higher than that before they
were resolved. In the millions.
Q So at present those are debts that Mr. Sherman
has to pay for debts to Ondova that were incurred prior to
the bankruptcy. Is that right?
A That's right.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I would like to offer 16.
THE COURT: 16 and 17 are admitted. Let me
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make sure I understand these lawsuits involving Ondova.
The trustee is obligated to pay these reasonable fees.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Yes, your Honor, these are
claims -- I don't want to go too far with that. These are
claims that have been asserted against Ondova as part of
the bankruptcy proceeding. So when we're talking about
unsecured creditors and all of these claims have not been
determined, these are the folks on the unsecured
creditor's claim list, and I believe one of the matters
required to be completed in the bankruptcy, and I'll defer
to Mr. Urbanik, but these claims need to be determined and
resolved.
MR. URBANIK: That is a compilation of the
remaining claims of the lawyers. Some were settled in the
settlement agreement. These are ones that are performing
a claims analysis. It's possible some of these may be
objected to, but this is the current list. Unpaid --
THE COURT: By the way, are there funds in the
bankruptcy to pay what's required by the settlement?
MR. URBANIK: The settlement funds from
Mr. MacPete's clients were received, and some other monies
were received. So currently the estate has sufficient
funds to pay administrative costs at the current date.
They keep going up because of the legal work. But to pay
unsecured creditors a good dividend. The estate has a
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couple of other assets that may be sold, if necessary.
But currently the estate is well over a million dollars
and still has the three hundred thousand dollars that
Judge Jurnigan set aside as a deposit to force Mr. Baron's
cooperation with the settlement agreement.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
Q Do you understand, Mr. Pronske, from the
trustee's prospective what he was looking for in the
settlement was enough money to be able to pay the
creditors?
A Yes.
Q And as your substantial contribution claim comes
into view and perhaps others, does that put at risk the
fundamental terms of the settlement?
A I wouldn't say actually it puts the settlement
at risk. I think it diminishes because it's an
administrative claim. It diminishes the amount available
for the unsecured creditors and may put in a position
where it pays the unsecured creditors less than full.
Q Mr. Pronske, you mentioned there were a number
of other lawyers out there. That you are aware of out
there who could potentially come into court and file
substantial contribution claims, can you identify any
names off that list?
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A Who could potentially file substantial
contribution claims?
Q Correct?
A Possibly Michael Nelson. He was the attorney
that was one -- attorneys for one of the substitute
trustees who did negotiation in the case.
Mr. Ferguson definitely would qualify.
There is a lawyer, Robert Garrett, for a million
dollars. I have never heard that name and don't know what
that amount is.
Mr. Hall could because he was definitely
involved in the negotiation.
Mr. Lyon definitely could. He was involved in
the negotiation.
Mr. Cohen was involved in the negotiation and
appeared at the court-ordered settlement conference.
Mark Taylor definitely could and in fact has
filed such a substantial contribution claim. He was the
attorney that was involved to litigate on a
contingency-fee basis part of the litigation that was
settled in the settlement negotiation.
Lou Vituio (phonetic)I have never heard of.
Ryan Lurich is the Friedman Figer law firm. I'm
not sure they would necessarily qualify.
Steven Jones, he was the criminal lawyer who
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represented Mr. Baron at the beginning of the time I
represented Mr. Baron, and I don't believe he would
qualify.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, I would like to offer
15 as a demonstrative exhibit to the testimony we just
heard.
THE COURT: What about the last page, Page 3?
Anybody on that page have a substantial contribution claim
possibly?
THE WITNESS: I'm not sure -- Eric Taub,
Elizabeth Schurig, Craig Capua, John Cohen -- those four
lawyers represented the Village Trust, and I'm not sure.
I really don't have an opinion one way or the other as to
whether they would technically qualify under the terms
of -- I think it's 507(d)(5) which is the substantial
contribution section. I'm not sure they could, but they
potentially could.
And I know Mr. Taub has filed a motion with the
bankruptcy court to have a substantial amount of
attorneys' fees approved.
Mr. Broom, I do not think would qualify.
Mr. Chesnin, I don't have an opinion.
Mr. Eckels, I'm not really sure.
And Mr. Cox, I don't know who that is.
BY MR. ROOSSIEN:
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Q Let me ask this follow-up. With regard to the
attorneys you did mention and with whom you are familiar,
those are still unpaid counsel that Mr. Vogel has to deal
with, correct?
A That's correct.
Q Now, are you familiar with the special function
of the special master and what that is?
A Yes, generally.
Q And can you tell us generally based on your
experience how the position of the special master is
comparable to the receiver?
A In this case I viewed it as a different role. I
saw Mr. Vogel's role in this case as one being primarily
facilitating settlement of the parties, hosting settlement
conferences and doing whatever he could to help the
parties try to resolve the case. He ended up I think
being very important to the process. He sort of was the
glue that bound everyone together in trying to get the
case settled successfully. As far as the receiver is
concerned, I think he has more of an overall function of
basically stepping into Mr. Baron's shoes, and so I think
those are two completely different roles, at least to me.
Q Yes. The special master role is more limited.
Is that correct?
A Yes.
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Q And both positions report directly to the Judge;
is that right?
A Yes.
Q And both of them are in a way the hands and feet
of the Court. Is that fair?
A I think that's fair.
Q And the role of special master, if I recall
correctly, Mr. Vogel goes back over a year. Is that
right?
A Yes.
Q More or less the beginning of this case?
A Well, I think he became more active, and I'm not
really sure of the dates. But around January or February
time frame of this year I think is when he seemed to
become much more active, and that's when the hosting of
the settlement conference began in the Gardere offices.
Q And he has a background in technology, correct?
A Yes.
Q Pretty extensive background?
A Yes.
Q Was that helpful to the settlement negotiations?
A Yes, it was.
Q Does that make him uniquely qualified to deal
with the situations presented?
A Yes, it was. We couldn't have had a better
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person in that role in my opinion.
Q As a result, did he also become intimately
familiar with the details of this situation?
A Yes. Probably not by choice, but yes.
Q So at the time that Judge Ferguson was faced
with determining who might serve as an appropriate
receiver just in terms of qualifications, as you
understand them for a receiver, did Mr. Vogel seem like a
natural choice?
A Yes, Mr. Vogel was someone that all the parties
respected, and I think was a very natural choice for the
role.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Mr. MacPete, can you do this in
about ten minutes?
MR. MACPETE: I will endeavor to do that.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Mr. Pronske, during the time that you
represented Mr. Baron, did you have discussions with
Mr. Baron about getting your fee paid?
A Yes, numerous times.
Q And that occurred while you were negotiating the
settlement agreement, correct?
A Numerous times during that process.
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Q And Mr. Baron indicated to you that he was going
to pay you for the services you were rendering?
A Yes, he did. In fact, it was part of the
settlement process actually, yes.
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, I object to asked and
answered at this point. We have gone over this matter,
and we're on limited time.
THE COURT: I'll overrule. But I know
Mr. MacPete, you will not repeat these matters.
MR. MACPETE: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q In fact, at one point during the settlement
agreement, didn't the Chapter 11 trustee suggest the issue
of the payment of your fees be included in the settlement
agreement?
A Yes.
Q And what did you tell the Chapter 11 trustee and
myself about whether you wanted that issue to be included
in the settlement agreement?
A I remember that discussion that was held in the
Munsch Hart offices in a conference room. I remember it
was at night time. And that was towards the end of the
process, and I told him I thought that was unnecessary
because Mr. Baron was going to pay me.
Q Subsequent to that time and based on the
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discussions and conduct of Mr. Baron, have you formed a
conclusion about whether he intended to perform those
promises he made to you to pay you?
A I know my belief.
Q What is that belief?
A My belief is he did not intend to pay me.
Q Let's talk about the substantial contribution
issue for a second. You filed an adversary proceeding in
Judge Jurnigan's court with respect to recovering your
fees against Mr. Baron, correct?
A Generally correct, technically not quite right.
He filed the lawsuit, as I said earlier, in the state
court as a temporary restraining order to prevent us from
discussing matters with Judge Jurnigan, and that also
contained a request for a declaratory judgment that we
would not be owed any money, and we removed that to the
federal court and filed a counter-claim that contained our
request for the fees.
Q Essentially what that means -- Let me back up.
You understand this Court is essentially the district
supervisory court for Judge Jurnigan's bankruptcy case,
correct?
A I understand that.
Q And as a result of that, essentially before
Judge Ferguson, is it your claim against Mr. Baron
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personally and his entities to recover your attorneys'
fees?
A I think the way the jurisdiction statutes work,
I think that's essentially correct.
Q And so the Court does have an interest, would
you agree, in the disposition of Mr. Baron's assets and
whether or not those assets are squandered or sequestered
in a jurisdiction outside of this court because your claim
is before Judge Ferguson, correct?
A I think that's correct, yes.
THE COURT: I also have an interest in the
matter being resolved in my Court. And apparently, there
is a question about whether the matter can ever be
resolved if it's left in the hands of Mr. Baron. Would
you agree with that?
THE WITNESS: I would agree with that, and I
think there is a connection because of the substantial
contribution motion which asks for administrative expenses
against the bankrupt estate. So I think there is numerous
ties to this Court.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Now, one of the things this Court did, his
Honor, was to issue a mediation order that attorneys' fees
claims were to be mediated with Mr. Vogel. Do you recall
that?
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A I do.
Q Tell this Court what you know about Mr. Baron's
compliance or noncompliance with that mediation order.
A As I said earlier, Mr. Baron through Martin
Thomas, his attorney, told me that they did not want to
mediate in front of Mr. Vogel. They had numerous other
lawyers that they wanted to have mediate the case. They
told me that if -- They wanted me to agree to that, and if
I did not agree that they were going to oppose the
mediation order and ask for a reconsideration of the
mediation order. I asked them who their mediators were,
told them I was happy to resolve it with anybody. I
really just wanted it to get resolved, and one of the
names they gave was Joyce Lindauer, and I know her and
agreed to that but told them -- And this is in writing to
Mr. Thomas -- that we would have to have a motion that
would approve that by Judge Jurnigan so that we weren't
going behind the Court's back, and we did in fact file
such a motion for that mediation, and we appeared in front
of Judge Jurnigan, and she authorized us to have a
mediation in front of Judge Jurnigan. She asked for an
order. And we tried to get them to sign that order for I
think it was about a month, and the lawyers kept changing,
and nobody would sign the order. It got very frustrating.
Eventually around the time frame of Thanksgiving --
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because I remember I was out of state when I had the
ultimate calls on this -- we finally did get Mr. Chesnin
to sign an agreed mediation order, and I think within a
day or two after that the receiver was appointed.
Q Who did you actually understand would be
Mr. Baron's counsel that was supposed to be conducting the
mediation?
A The negotiations about that were with Mr. Broom.
He's the one that called me. I remember I was in Colorado
at the time, and I spoke with Mr. Broom, and he said add
another to the list of lawyers that aren't getting paid.
He told me he quit and was very upset about it and I would
be dealing with somebody else, and I said, "Stan, I'm not
happy to hear that" because I actually worked well with
Mr. Broom, and I told Mr. Broom we really wanted to get
this mediation order signed, and he said that he had told
Mr. Chesnin that it was essential that order get signed,
and he thought it would get signed quickly, and in fact,
it did, and then the receiver was appointed within a day
or two of that.
Q Would it be fair to say that no motion was ever
filed with Judge Ferguson asking him to reconsider or
vacate his order that those issues be mediated with
Mr. Vogel?
A That's correct. I think the procedure was to go
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through Judge Jurnigan and have her recommend that. I
think that was the appropriate procedure.
Q Would it be fair to say based on Mr. Baron's
statements and his conduct in continually changing counsel
during this period of time that Mr. Baron was not
complying with the Court's mediation order?
A I think that's correct, yes.
Q Is it your understanding that this Court has the
power to appoint a receiver for the purpose of compelling
a party to comply with its orders which are not being
complied with?
A Yes, I don't think there is any question about
that.
THE COURT: You can have two minutes. We're
completely running out of time.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Sir, are you familiar with the case Griffin
versus Lee?
A Not sitting here right now, no.
THE COURT: Are you talking about the recent
Fifth Circuit case?
MR. BARRETT: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: By the way, I misspoke about one
thing. I don't think I can do anything about your fees if
Mr. Baron doesn't pay you after the receivership is over.
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I think you have to go to state court and sue him if
that's the way it works. So I want you to know from that
point of view you all will have no right to any
receivership funds or anything else.
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Judge. I have a
question for this witness, and I will bring something up
later.
BY MR. BARRETT
Q Sir, are you familiar that the Fifth Circuit has
essentially held that you cannot bring a claim for
attorneys' fees in a bankruptcy case?
A I don't understand that. I think that's
probably overbroad.
THE COURT: This is a legal argument. You can
certainly present that to me and argue it legally.
MR. BARRETT: Well, Mr. MacPete just brought up
the fact that you can go ahead and do this.
THE COURT: Well, do you understand that we're
talking about substantial contribution claims by the
lawyers? Is that case on all fours? It involves
substantial contribution claims.
MR. BARRETT: It is, Judge.
THE COURT: Okay. We'll all look at it.
MR. ROOSSIEN: I suspect when we all look at it
that won't be exactly what it says, but I agree this is a
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legal discussion.
THE COURT: With all due respect to Mr. Pronske,
he's an outstanding lawyer, but I think we will all take a
look at that, and for him to read it on the witness stand
doesn't make any sense.
MR. BARRETT: Fair enough, Judge. But your
Honor, I would ask the Court to take a serious look at
this case at the earliest possible time.
THE COURT: Absolutely.
MR. BARRETT: Because it goes to the heart of
this matter, and it appears to really resolve this issue.
THE COURT: Well, I'll hear from counsel on
this. The legal fee issue is not the only issue.
MR. BARRETT: It's not.
THE COURT: Because there was a settlement
agreement entered into, as I understand it, under the
offices of the bankruptcy court, a court under my
supervision. I understand that settlement agreement has
not been complied with by Mr. Baron. The problem with
that is how to bring compliance with an agreement that has
been entered into under the auspices of the Court. There
are many other problems.
MR. BARRETT: Your Honor, I think you have hit
on the issue. I frankly think what this hearing should do
is hone in on what issues everybody believes that the
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settlement agreement hasn't complied with.
THE COURT: Well, I mean that's one of the
issues. What I have understood from all the witnesses
you've called, especially Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Pronske, is
they have testified that Mr. Baron has no intention of
complying with the settlement agreement that he has signed
under the auspices of the bankruptcy court, and Mr. Baron
told both of these lawyers "I'm just not going to comply.
I'm not going to comply with the agreement that I have
signed and that a bankruptcy court has facilitated." So
I'm sitting here thinking that, you know, this case will
never end because no matter what Mr. Baron signs or agrees
to, it doesn't mean anything to him. I only have a
certain ability to enforce my orders other than
incarcerating. I have never taken that step because I
think that's the most serious step of all, but I am
sitting here hearing the witnesses you have called as your
witnesses that have said he's not going to comply with
anything. It's unfortunate. But what is a court to do
when he told his lawyers that he's not going to comply
with a settlement agreement that he signed through long
hours of negotiation, that has been entered into under the
auspices of a bankruptcy court and he's still not going to
comply with his own agreements. We'll talk about this
later, but this is a matter of deep concern.
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MR. BARRETT: It is. It's the issue in the
case, I think.
THE COURT: The issue is I could have put him in
detention for contumacious behavior which is there is no
question it was contemptuous. But I tried a less severe
method of resolving this case. As far as I'm concerned
from what I have heard from his own lawyers, from their
mouth, from his own statements, he has no intention of
complying with the settlement agreement that he signed.
It's unfortunate. How do we get that done? I have no
earthly idea. I'll hear from good lawyers about that.
But in the meantime I have to take every step I can
because so many people have worked so hard in good faith
on one side to get this done. And it's clear on one side
there was no good faith despite the earnest attempts of
lawyers who in fact over and over again urged Mr. Baron to
comply with these agreements and to take reasonable steps
in regard to his conduct under the law. And in every
instance they have testified that their entreaties to him
were completely ignored and he would not take their advice
at all. You have certainly opened my eyes with the
witnesses you brought before me and the testimony that
they have given here. Never in my forty some odd years in
law have I ever seen a situation like this under any
circumstances at all. This is beyond vexatious
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litigation. It's somebody operating without any intention
of conducting themselves in good faith. It's a very sad
situation.
Mr. Baron's psychologist says he's depressed. I
think I have a lot of depressed people here that have
tried -- good lawyers, decent lawyers, operating in
ultimate good faith trying to represent a client. And
their efforts have gone to know avail whatsoever. This is
all in the record, just to let you know. But that's my
deep concern with this case, and now I'm here trying to
decide how to best handle this. And you know, I am going
to have to hear in a minute about what we need to do about
resolving the settlement because you know I can't allow
lawyers to negotiate for months, expending probably
millions of dollars representing their clients and have
one party with their fingers crossed behind their back the
whole time. Very unfortunate. But that is maybe another
matter that I have to deal with. Mr. MacPete.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, one thing in response
to your Honor's discussion. I would remind this Court, as
I know you are well aware, that the order of the
bankruptcy court approving the settlement is a procedural
matter that has to occur because the trustee essentially
was operating the debtor. But the court order approving
the settlement was not an order ordering the settlement.
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And I think that's an important distinction. I think your
Honor's comments are important, but when we talk about the
receivership, the receivership is not being asked to
enforce the settlement because the settlement is not an
order of the Court.
THE COURT: I understand that. I'm talking
about the totality of the circumstances. And the totality
of the circumstances is this good lawyer and all the other
lawyers in this Court who have worked for Mr. Baron in
good faith, who have done everything they could to
facilitate the bankruptcy in this case and who have made
substantial contributions to the bankruptcy -- those good
lawyers have gone unpaid and to the detriment of the
bankruptcy estate, and that is a deep problem. I don't
know what we're going to do about the settlement. The
settlement has great implications for my own Court, and I
will have to deal with that.
Thank you very much, Mr. Barrett.
Thank you, Mr. Pronske. You are excused.
THE COURT: Okay. I guess the last witness is
Mr. Baron.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, your Honor, may I have one
moment before we hear Mr. Baron testify?
THE COURT: Let me say you know this case is in
many ways not so difficult on the receivership issue.
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I've got a bankruptcy court that is trying to close a
bankruptcy. There are substantial contribution claims by
lawyers in that bankruptcy. I am trying to get the -- The
bankruptcy is under my supervision, and it's trying to be
closed. I have a receiver who has tried to conserve funds
and done as good a job as probably humanly possible under
all the circumstances. I have a trustee who has worked
incredibly hard in this case and been very well
represented by very competent counsel. I just want to get
this matter closed. This receivership is not going on
forever. It's not going on for very long. But everybody
wants to fight about everything in this case. This
receivership could be over tomorrow if we could just get
sufficient funds to make sure that the bankruptcy court is
appropriately funded in such a way that it could be
closed. But you know, everything with Mr. Baron, of
course, takes forever, and so there we are. By the way,
how much funds has the receiver collected to this date?
MR. BARRETT: Do we know how much funds we need?
THE COURT: I'm asking the receiver how much
they have collected in this case. My guess is -- And
maybe Mr. Urbanik you can help me. I see the figures here
which may be substantial contributions probably go to
about a million one or two.
So that's -- you are probably going to have to
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put another million dollars into the bankruptcy or
something.
MR. URBANIK: Your Honor, they could reach a
million dollars. You have heard throughout the day the
substantial contribution motions are sort of this
unexpected delay and development. If Mr. Sherman had
known we would have to pay all of these other lawyers, he
wouldn't have settled at a million fifty. He would have
settled at million three, four. We didn't know they
wouldn't pay all of these lawyers. Almost two dozen
lawyers haven't been paid --
THE COURT: Almost twenty lawyers I guess.
MR. URBANIK: Yes. So we never anticipated it.
The motions could drag on a long time. No one expected
Baron to settle these at the mediations with Mr. Vogel.
It looked like a long multi-year period. There is five or
six state court suits. Some in front of Judge Hoffman,
Judge Ginsberg. This has turned into utter chaos because
Baron didn't pay the attorneys. So when Broom quit, when
Martin Thomas quit, we had no choice but to seek a
receivership. It was turning into an absolute chaos
caused by this "ever changing cavalcade of lawyers," as
Judge Jurnigan stated. It's at least a million five in
attorneys' fees, and we're working with Mr. Vogel, and we
would like to have this wrapped up in six months.
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THE COURT: We could have it wrapped up a lot
quicker if we could have the funds.
MR. SCHEPPS: You said you could knock out this
receivership tomorrow. Could we quantify that?
THE COURT: I would say two and a half million
dollars. Do you think so?
MR. URBANIK: Yes, your Honor, that would cover
it.
MR. GOLDEN: Well, your Honor, that's a good
segue into answering your question about the funds the
receiver has been able to access so far, and as a preface
I will say we have filed a November receiver report, and
we're planning to file our December receiver report in
about a week. And attached to that we will have a chart
about the funds that we have accessed, the funds we have
located but not yet accessed and what we need to do to
access it.
For purposes of giving you an update right now,
the Jeff Baron personal assets that the receiver has
accessed total one million eighty-eight thousand dollars.
But keep in mind, your Honor, this is money including
checking, stock, money markets, CD's. So it's some money
that with regard to the CD's, I don't know if we're going
to use that.
MR. VOGEL: And the IRA.
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THE COURT: I'm not sure I understand what you
mean. You have access but --
MR. GOLDEN: Nevermind. The CD's actually have
nothing. What we have accessed in cash, checking, stock
and money market. We would have to discuss with you, your
Honor, before we would cash out Mr. Baron's stock, not the
CD's. We have also located a number of other assets that
we haven't been able to access yet, although for some of
them we have them frozen. Those involve checking,
savings, money market and a number of IRA's and the IRA's
raise the same issue of the stock of whether the Court is
going to give us the authority to use that particular type
of fund to pay off.
THE COURT: Well, you have to apply to me about
the stock. In other words, make application to me about
the stock.
MR. GOLDEN: That's right. Preferably we would
like to pay everything with the checking account.
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. GOLDEN: But if it gets down to it, we
might have to have the hard choices of using an IRA or
selling a domain name or something that's not as easy to
do as a checking account. The amount of Baron assets that
we have located yet not accessed total 1.69 million
dollars. So to the extent that we can get access to those
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funds that we have already located, then we're going to be
in a position to have over that two and a half number you
mentioned. We're on the way.
MR. MACPETE: Keep in mind the issue here is not
about necessarily having money for the attorneys. If you
recall from the last hearing, there are three independent
bases that support the Court's receivership order. The
first is stopping his vexatious conduct. And if he is
allowed to hire attorneys that interfere with the process
in this court and the bankruptcy court, that vexatious
conduct is going to continue. Obviously Mr. Vogel
representing Mr. Baron as the receiver is going to act in
Mr. Baron's best interest, but he's not going to engage in
vexatious litigation conduct. That has nothing to do with
the amount of money that may be available to pay the
lawyers.
THE COURT: I agree with that.
MR. MACPETE: The second point was to stop this
ongoing fraud that appears to be occurring, and that's
where Mr. Baron hires attorneys and gets them to work for
a period and replaces them with another attorney when they
are no longer willing to work for free. And if he is
returned his assets and able to engage counsel, he can
continue in that pattern of conduct. And third was to
enforce the orders of this Court. And obviously when he
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was able to hire and fire lawyers and manage his own
affairs, he was not complying with the Court's orders
about hiring and firing counsel, and there is an order
from your Honor and Judge Jurnigan. And not complying
with the mediation order. And those are the three bases
that support this Court continuing the receivership. And
none of those actually have anything to do with how much
money might be available to pay all of these lawyer claims
when they are ultimately decided.
THE COURT: I understand what you are saying.
But my view is if I can close the bankruptcy, close the
settlement, dismiss this case, dismiss all the other
cases, at that point I have no need to have a
receivership.
MR. MACPETE: Absolutely, your Honor, you are
totally correct.
THE COURT: And so that's my goal. But the
problem I have is as you say. If Mr. Baron continues to
have access to funds, he would continue to really subvert
the judicial process. It will be subverted because there
will be another lawyer and another lawyer and another
lawyer. None of these good lawyers knew what had happened
behind them or past them. So they come in thinking there
has been a conflict and I'll go on and help Mr. Baron get
his work done. But of course, when I received the request
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for the preliminary or emergency request for receivership,
all of those matters were clearly before me. What I am
now doing is having a clear hearing so that Mr. Baron can
make his presentation. I think at this point if there is
no need for an emergency -- furtherance of the emergency
receiver, I can vacate that. But clearly based upon the
testimony I received today from Mr. Baron's own lawyers,
it's clear that this conduct is much worse than I had
understood. As bad as I had understood it to be, it was
much worse than I understood.
This really goes beyond vexatious conduct. So
I'm just going to make everybody sure. I'm not talking
about keeping the receivership going forever. I'm talking
about an effort to prevent any further abuse of the
judicial process which I think has occurred -- clearly
from the testimony today has occurred to stop further
vexatious litigation which I was neither myself or Judge
Jurnigan was able to do, and my other alternative was to
incarcerate Mr. Baron in an effort to stop it, and I am
always reluctant to do that. And so this is the least
serious remedy I could use to stop the matter, and of
course, it just came to a point where it was clear that
Mr. Baron was not going to comply with the orders of the
Court, and the receivership is an effort to stop the
parade of lawyers trying to wiggle out of lawful
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injunctions from judicial officers. Yes, sir.
MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, one quick comment on
the amount of money the receiver is trying to collect in
order to pay off all the attorneys' fees. We submitted an
order to you at the end of the last hearing which was an
order that would compel Mr. Baron to take certain acts to
what we call stop the interference.
THE COURT: I have that order before me. And
once I enter my order on the receivership which is subject
to appeal, I will -- I'll consider that motion, and that
should be done within the next week.
MR. GOLDEN: Well, what we plan to do from that
if your Honor signs the order is it would compel Mr. Baron
to sign certain letters to certain banks that would give
us access to additional funds and thus take that 1.8
million dollars we have and get it way up a lot faster.
THE COURT: By the way, Mr. MacPete, maybe you
can tell me. What's the status of the settlement that was
affirmed by Judge Jurnigan?
MR. MACPETE: My clients have fully complied
with the settlement. As you heard Mr. Urbanik say, on
behalf of the trustee we paid the amount -- actually early
the amount we were supposed to pay. The phone cards, as
you heard testimony about from Mr. Lyon, is still in
breach of agreement. There were payments that were
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supposed to be paid to my clients that have not been made
for six months.
THE COURT: How many?
MR. MACPETE: A small amount which is what's so
maddening. It's less than twenty-five hundred dollars.
And I have been to probably five bankruptcy court hearings
in conjunction with Judge Jurnigan's order to show cause
why Mr. Baron shouldn't be sanctioned for interference
with the settlement agreement to talk about this issue,
and it's an issue easy for him to solve. He got paid, and
he was knows he has money that belongs to my client, and
he hasn't repatriated that money. We paid early, and my
clients are saying how come the Court isn't making him do
what he's supposed to do. Even twenty-five hundred
dollars. I have not filed an adversary proceeding before
Judge Jurnigan for breach of the settlement agreement
which I could do which would entitle me to my attorneys's
fees under the agreement. But that's only going to create
more litigation. And we want that to stop. We haven't
done that. We have been patiently waiting for this to
stop, number one. And number two is your Honor heard the
tax returns were filed in violation of the settlement
agreement with the USVI Internal Revenue Service. That's
a bell that cannot be unrung. I don't know the damages
from that. Hopefully none. But we don't know. Other
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than that, the settlement agreement is sort of proceeding
apace, and what really needs to happen next is what the
Chapter 11 trustee is telling you which is we need to
close the bankruptcy. And in order to close the
bankruptcy, we have to stop the vexatious conduct
occurring in the bankruptcy court and stop the ever
increasing parade of lawyers being defrauded and then
subsequently turn around and make a claim in the
bankruptcy court against the assets that the trustee is
trying to use to pay the creditors and all of these
lawyers. That's the problem they say. We're never going
to be able to close the bankruptcy because we have an ever
increasing pool of claimants that are administrative
claimants when they make these substantial contribution
claims. Nobody knows whether or not Judge Jurnigan will
actually approve those, and as you heard Mr. Pronske say,
she may approve some of them. Certainly, Mr. Pronske did
contribute a great deal trying to get the settlement
effectuated. He had to beg, plead and cajole Mr. Baron
kicking and screaming to sign that settlement agreement,
and we know he didn't really want to do it. And so I
think Mr. Pronske has a legitimate practical claim to say
"I benefited the estate because I helped get this
settlement," much like the lawyers that settled the
previous litigation, clearly contributing to getting the
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settlement. That lawyer was clearly instrumental in
getting the settlement done. There may be other lawyers
that can make similar claims, and that's what the Chapter
11 trustee is worried about, that this is going to
continue on, and that's why they are saying you have the
authority to deal with a vexatious litigant, with this
ongoing fraud, with theft of services of lawyers, and you
need to do that in part so that we can actually close all
of this down and let everybody, including Mr. Baron, go on
with their lives, and I know that's what this Court
wants -- and probably every other lawyer in this courtroom
wants -- is for this bankruptcy case to end and everybody
go on with their lives.
THE COURT: As I understand it, the settlement
in bankruptcy will end my case. Is that correct?
MR. MACPETE: Yes, your Honor, I think once the
bankruptcy is concluded, then the dismissal papers that
Mr. Urbanik is currently holding in trust, if you will,
for my case that I filed in front of your Honor would then
be submitted to this Court and your Honor's jurisdiction
basically over the bankruptcy, and this case would
ultimately go away.
THE COURT: Mr. Urbanik.
MR. URBANIK: Thank you, I agree with virtually
all of what Mr. MacPete has said. The settlement
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agreement has components that go on for years, including
some payments to the estate and Village Trust. So many of
the contractual components are complete. The release that
we gave the parties and they gave us is now down the
drain. We never anticipated hundreds of thousands of
dollars of new claims to show up. It gives rise to a new
claim by Mr. Sherman against the Baron parties. There was
fraud here. There was fraud here because Baron never
intended to pay the lawyers. We didn't know we would have
hundreds of thousands of dollars coming into our estate.
The negotiation was to pay the debts and give the keys
back to Mr. Baron. But that didn't happen. From the day
of the settlement agreement, Mr. Pronske advised he was
resigning because he hadn't been paid, and the other
lawyers weren't paid. So the releases are down the drain,
and the road map for the future is very unclear, very
cloudy because we have the new substantial contribution
state court motion. Five lawsuits against Baron. The
mediation process that collapsed, those were all the
reasons that we came to this Court for the receivership
because we will never end this bankruptcy case if Baron
continued what he was doing. There was no way for us to
continue. Mr. Sherman has fiduciary duties to his
creditors. And then the funds would have been gone. If
we had filed a motion giving them fourteen days' notice,
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those funds would be in the Cook Islands or Switzerland.
We had evidence of a Swiss bank account that was given to
us confidentially. There was no way to give notice to
Mr. Baron because the money would have been gone and there
was such a long history of asset protection. It's all we
heard about, asset protection and tax evasion, and there
was no choice but to do this quickly. And we think we
made the right decision, and we would ask the Court to
deny the state pending appeal and keep Mr. Vogel in and
let him get the receivership done and claims off the
ground, and we'll close out the bankruptcy estate.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, one thing I don't
agree with Mr. Urbanik on, and I don't think the
settlement agreement is abrogated and the releases are
abrogated. That's not the position of my clients. I
think there are plenty of representations in the agreement
that said people aren't relying on anything. I was there
every minute of every negotiation on the settlement
agreement. I don't believe there was any representations
that Mr. Baron made about whether he was or was not paying
his counsel. With respect to that much, I want to be
clear that I don't agree with Mr. Urbanik that anybody can
wiggle out of this settlement that we have.
THE COURT: I don't think Mr. Urbanik is
saying -- My understanding is he is saying there are
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fiduciary requirements under the settlement agreement.
MR. MACPETE: That's correct. One of those
requirements is that my client is operating a domain name
which is essentially going to be run by us, that Mr. Baron
has an interest in and payments are going to be coming to
us and to him and his entities over a period of
twenty-five years. We have control over that. We have
the domain name. We're operating the domain name, and
we're collecting the money and paying the money the way
we're supposed to, initially to the Chapter 11 trustee and
then later the receiver as the representative of Mr. Baron
in his trust. And I think, in fact, we have paid off the
Chapter 11 trustee's portion, and we were the first to
give the receiver money. That fourteen thousand dollars
you heard about last time was actually a payment with
respect to this agreement on Poker Star. But I thought I
heard Mr. Urbanik say something about the settlement
agreement was procured by fraud and somehow the releases
are abrogated, and if that's correct, I don't agree with
that.
THE COURT: I don't think he said that. His
view was in the bankruptcy if they had known that the
lawyers' services were being procured by fraud and all of
these substantial contribution claims would come in, they
would have made entirely different kinds of arrangements
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to handle these matters and close out the bankruptcy.
Because they did not know that, they were not able to make
arrangements and not able to close out the bankruptcy the
way they should given Mr. Sherman's fiduciary duties to
creditors and everyone else in the bankruptcy.
Mr. Sherman has certainly undertaken a very difficult job
in this case, and I think we all owe him a debt of
gratitude. So whether that's -- Judge Jurnigan and I will
work out the settlement and its ramifications. But I
think everyone understands pretty clear based on what you
and Mr. Urbanik have said why the receivership has been
necessary in this case.
MR. URBANIK: Just for clarification. In no way
detrimental comments as to Manilla or Netsphere when I
talked about whether it was procured by fraud. Those
parties have fully cooperated in the settlement effort so
far. So I wasn't directing to them or Mr. MacPete's
clients.
THE COURT: I understand. And Mr. MacPete and
his clients seem ready, willing and able to maintain the
settlement agreement and live by its terms and conditions.
Mr. Barrett, you want to call Mr. Baron?
MR. BARRETT: I want the Court to know certainly
that one of the points that Mr. MacPete brought up is
there has been an allegation certainly and that the Court
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is concerned about the movant hiring and firing people
fraudulently and not paying them, and of course, that
would be a concern of myself. And I would represent to
the Court that if I'm on this case and I think that if Mr.
Schepps is on this case, we have an incentive to wrap this
up as soon as possible. And I represent to the Court that
I will see to it that that's done. I certainly have I
think a good relationship with my client at this point. I
understand my client can be difficult sometimes to deal
with. But I want to represent to the Court that I'm
certainly willing to do that. I want to wrap this up as
quickly as possible, too.
THE COURT: I appreciate those sentiments
completely. I appreciate your representation of Mr.
Baron, and I appreciate the fact that you have -- as an
officer of the Court you have called these lawyer
witnesses to testify. It's the only conclusion I can
reach from their testimony, the only conclusion, is that
Mr. Baron's conduct towards his counsel has been
fraudulent and that he has procured their services without
any intent of finally paying them their just fee and that
he is a serial violator of the requirement to deal in good
faith with lawyers and parties and so forth. It's an
unfortunate -- As I say, I have never seen anything like
it in my life. It's very unfortunate.
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MR. BARRETT: I'll certainly call my client on
this issue. But I guess it concerns me that we haven't
had any sort of evidence on how much money the clients are
claiming versus how much there may be owed versus how much
they have been paid and which lawyers represented Jeff
Baron which was a fraction of the number of lawyers versus
which lawyers represented Novo Point and which lawyers
represented Quantec. This is one of the most complex
litigations I have ever seen in my life, and I'm frankly
not equipped to handle it, to be honest with you, Judge.
THE COURT: Let me say, I tried unsuccessfully.
Mr. Baron found no interest in following my orders. I
tried to stop the sort of swinging door of lawyers. I
told him he couldn't hire a lawyer without my approval.
He did. I told him he had to continue to use particular
lawyers. He didn't. There is nothing I could do. The
lawyers just kept coming, and it made no difference to
Mr. Baron what my orders were. Zero. I have never seen a
client like that. And as I say, I don't like to put
people in prison, and I went home at night thinking should
I put Mr. Baron in custody to try to stop this, but it was
obvious I couldn't. So we were coming to a head, and
there was going to be a contempt hearing. And based upon
everything I knew, it was very clear to me that Mr. Baron
was in contempt of my orders. And there was no question
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about that. And of course, he waylaid that with a
decision to put Ondova in bankruptcy. Judge Jurnigan
thought the decision to go into bankruptcy was for an
improper purpose. It was clearly in my mind. She thought
that as well. And then her efforts to stop the
merry-go-round of lawyers was unsuccessful. So over and
over and over again we tried. I really didn't see behind
the curtain until today. And today I saw behind the
curtain, and I saw how abusive, terribly abusive Mr. Baron
was to decent honorable lawyers who had no other intent
but to help him and to give him guidance and direction so
that he wouldn't really do things that were contrary to
his own self-interest. What's really bizarre about this
is he was always acting at cross purpose to his own best
interest. It's mind boggling. I was glad to hear the
professor say that he was competent because normally you
think competent people operate in their own best interest.
I was glad to hear he was competent. The only problem
about hearing that is I had to conclude that everything
was intentional, completely intentional. And therefore,
all the more egregious. So that's where we are. To me,
I'm sure Mr. Baron has paid lawyers. The problem was he
wouldn't keep paying them. I have been a lawyer before.
You know, I was a lawyer for twenty-four years, and the
abuse that was visited on these lawyers is amazing to me.
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And I have heard Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Pronske say it was
twenty-four hours a day. Five thousand cell phone
minutes? You know, I'm stunned. I mean, I am beyond
stunned that that would have occurred with Mr. Ferguson.
The conduct -- You know, I have heard Mr. Baron testify a
couple of times. I'll be glad to hear his side of the
story, but I will tell you there is nothing about what
these lawyers said that wasn't completely credible in
every respect, totally and completely, and I'm sure I am
going to hear Mr. Baron say "It never happened that way, I
was good to them. I paid them everything. They breached
their agreements with me." Etcetera, etcetera. I might
believe that if it was one lawyer or maybe two. But not
twenty. Somewhere along the line you have to consider
that not twenty lawyers are the problem. So you know,
that's where we are. I have heard that Mr. Baron is
depressed. And you are going to work this week to have
him this week in therapy.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And you are going to get the money
from Mr. Golden and the receiver, Mr. Vogel, and I
consider that he should be in constant counseling.
MR. BARRETT: Understood.
THE COURT: Okay. That's good. I don't know if
anyone can understand how alarming this day has been and
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how alarming the testimony has been about the conduct of
Mr. Baron. But it's all on the record. So I'll be glad
for Mr. Baron to come up and testify how much money he has
paid. I'll hear from him. He may be telling me that
every lawyer he has dealt with has been a fraud and he
just can't believe that he has had to deal with so many
lawyers.
MR. BARRETT: For the record, I'm advising
Mr. Baron not to testify and he is going to follow my
advice.
THE COURT: Well, he can assert privileges like
the 5th Amendment, and I take it you are asserting the 5th
Amendment privilege on his behalf.
MR. BARRETT: That's correct.
THE COURT: Okay. It comes over to you.
Anything from your point of view?
MR. ROOSSIEN: No, I believe we were able to
cover all the evidence we wanted to put before the Court
in the context of the other witnesses.
THE COURT: I have Exhibits 1 through 47 here.
Is there anything else you would ask me to admit in the
book before me?
MR. ROOSSIEN: I don't believe so, Judge. I
think what we have submitted is accounted for.
THE COURT: So for the record, the Trustee's
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Exhibits 2, 4 through 10, 12 to 41 are admitted
MR. ROOSSIEN: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you very much.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Exhibit 1 I believe was admitted.
THE COURT: And it was and anything you would
like to present in that post-hearing I will allow you to
do, Mr. MacPete.
MR. MACPETE: I would ask Exhibit 1 be admitted
for demonstrative purposes because I think Mr. Roossien's
purpose in presenting it was to establish that Mr. Baron
used the Cook Island trust, and I think he established
that through the actual testimony. So I think there is no
need to admit the exhibit in evidence other than
demonstrative purposes.
MR. ROOSSIEN: And I would suggest for limited
purposes.
THE COURT: Okay. My plan is to get you an
order.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, just for the record
because I know this is going to the Fifth Circuit, I think
I need to call Mr. Baron and actually ask him some
questions and let him invoke the 5th Amendment because
there is an inference that's permitted from that, but I
think we have to have a record where somebody has called
him and established that.
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THE COURT: You are correct.
MR. MACPETE: I don't want to waste the Court's
time, but if we could do that.
THE COURT: That's correct.
Mr. Baron, you have been instructed by your
lawyer not to answer based upon your 5th Amendment
privilege, but you have to invoke that privilege as to
each question.
(Sworn)
THE COURT: And remember your answer to each
question is "I refuse to answer based upon my 5th
Amendment privilege."
JEFFREY BARON
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q State your name for the record?
A Jeff Baron.
Q Mr. Baron, how many lawyers have you actually
hired to represent you in this or the related case?
THE COURT: You refuse to answer?
A Based on what my counsel said, I refuse to
answer.
BY MR. MACPETE:
Q Isn't it true, sir, that in fact you have hired
lawyers and promised to pay them without the intent to
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perform that promise?
A The same answer as I just gave.
Q In fact, you did that with respect to
Mr. Pronske, correct?
A Same answer as before.
Q And you did that with respect to Mr. Ferguson,
correct?
A Same answer as before.
Q And you did that with respect to Mr. Martin,
correct?
A Same answer as before.
Q And you did that with respect to Mr. Vitullo and
his law firm?
A Same answer.
Q And you did that with respect to Mr. Mark Taylor
and his law firm?
A Same answer as before.
Q And you did that with respect to Mr. Lurich and
his law firm?
A Same answer.
Q And you did that with respect to Mr. Rasansky
and Ms. Aldous, correct?
A Same answer as before.
Q Were there any lawyers who you actually intended
to perform the promises you made to them to pay them?
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A Same answer as before.
Q Is it true, Mr. Baron, that you purposely
engaged in conduct that was designed to increase the cost
of litigation for my clients and the Chapter 11 trustee?
A Same answer as before.
Q Is it also true that you purposefully have not
complied with the Court's order to refrain from engaging
counsel except for Friedman and Figer as ordered by Judge
Ferguson?
A Same answer as before.
Q Is it true that you have violated Judge
Jurnigan's order not to hire additional counsel for the
bankruptcy case?
A Same answer.
Q Is it true that you have not complied with Judge
Ferguson's order to mediate the attorneys' fees disputes
with Peter Vogel?
A Same answer as before.
Q And is it also true, Mr. Baron, that you
submitted a preliminary injunction to this Court dividing
up certain domain name assets at a time when you were
alleging that those assets were not owned by any of the
parties that were signatories to that preliminary
injunction?
A Same answer.
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MR. MACPETE: Nothing further. Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you very much. If anyone
wishes -- We're going to get an order so that you can
appeal. If anyone wants to submit anything as to briefing
authorities or anything else, I will look at your
authorities on your Fifth Circuit case. That needs to be
submitted within -- by five o'clock Thursday. Give us the
citation on your case.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, may Mr. Baron step
down?
THE COURT: Yes, you may step down.
MR. BARRETT: Judge, there is no citation. May
I give this copy to the Court?
THE COURT: Give us the style.
MR. BARRETT: Griffin versus Lee, September 24,
2010.
THE COURT: I'll ask you to give this matter
your prompt attention, Mr. Roossien.
MR. ROOSSIEN: Your Honor, I have not viewed the
case because it was presented to me this morning.
However, my colleague has, and my understanding is this is
simply a dispute to collect attorneys' fees that had no
other basis for jurisdiction. And here what we have is a
situation where in the bankruptcy court naturally many of
the claims were attorneys' fees claims, and then there
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were substantial contribution claims which was allowed by
the bankruptcy judge to be made in that context. And so
those were naturally before the Court. And in addition,
once a receiver is appointed in equity, then all of the
affairs of Mr. Baron are before this Court as a matter of
that ancillary proceeding. And so for all of those
reasons, your Honor, we would distinguish that particular
authority.
THE COURT: Give me a letter brief, if you
would, within forty-eight hours. And you can provide the
kind of brief you want to. You may as well, Mr. MacPete.
MR. MACPETE: Your Honor, the last thing I would
say with respect to the invocation of the 5th Amendment,
as your Honor well knows in a criminal case there can be
no inference from the invocation of the 5th Amendment.
That's not true in a civil case. In a civil case, this
Court is allowed to draw a negative inference from
Mr. Baron's invocation of the 5th Amendment and his answer
on those three independent bases on which you can appoint
a receiver is additional support for appointing the
receiver.
THE COURT: That's right. You all are going to
split the cost of this transcript, and you all are going
to order it and make it available. I expect Mr. Baron
will enter a relationship with a therapist this week.
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USCA5 5215
Mr. Vogel will pay any amount of sums available to that
therapist to make sure that Mr. Baron has full access to
that therapist as that therapist designates.
MR. BARRETT: Yes, sir, your Honor. Do you mind
if that's a psychiatrist or psychologist?
THE COURT: I don't mind. Our good professor
made some recommendations. If those don't work, I want
somebody --
MR. BARRETT: -- that can treat depression.
THE COURT: I understand he's under medication
for that right now. So that will be good. My hope is
that we can resolve this matter very promptly. I can
vacate and dissolve the receivership. There will be funds
available to Mr. Sherman and his counsel so that they can
close the bankruptcy, and with the receivership in charge
of the funds, I don't have to worry about new lawyers
coming in this case and continuing to create havoc. Okay,
we're in recess.
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 237
USCA5 5216
INDEX
EXAMINATION
Witness Name Page
Gary Lyon
Direct By Barrett
.....................................................
31
Cross By Roossien
.....................................................
38
Re-Direct By Barrett
..................................................
50
Cross By MacPete
......................................................
57
Cross By Roossien
.....................................................
76
Re-Direct By Barrett
..................................................
85
Cross By MacPete
......................................................
90
Sidney Chesnin
Direct By Barrett
.....................................................
102
Cross By Roossien
.....................................................
112
Cross By MacPete
......................................................
112
Re-Direct By Barrett
..................................................
114
William Tetford
Direct By Barrett
.....................................................
117
Cross By MacPete
......................................................
135
Cross By Golden
........................................................
138
Cross By MacPete
......................................................
141
Cross By MacPete
......................................................
198
Jeffrey Baron
Direct By MacPete
.....................................................
232
EXHIBITS
Movant's Exhibit Page
Baron 1-2 admitted 108
Baron 3 admitted 151
Respondent's Exhibit Page
Trustee 1 admitted 231
Trustee 2, 4-10, 12-41 admitted 230
Trustee 16-17 admitted 191
Trustee 38 57
Trustee 49 admitted 45
Trustee 50 admitted 46
Trustee 51 admitted 183
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 238
USCA5 5217
C E R T I F I C A T I O N
I, Cassidi L. Casey, certify that during the proceedings of the
foregoing-styled and -numbered cause, I was the official reporter and
took in stenotypy such proceedings and have transcribed the same as
shown by the above and foregoing pages 1 through 238 and that said
transcript is true and correct.
I further certify that the transcript fees and format comply with
those prescribed by the court and the Judicial Conference of the
United States.
s/Cassidi L. Casey
_____________________________
CASSIDI L. CASEY
UNITED STATES DISTRICT REPORTER
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
DALLAS DIVISION
CSR NUMBER 1703
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 239
USCA5 5218
< Dates >
April 15th, 2010 171:3
April 25th 38:2
April. 171:1
August 2009 150:11
August 2010 58:25
August 21 77:2
August 21st 69:1
August 21st. 67:18
August 5th, 2010 33:16
August. 40:22, 67:11, 67:18,
71:15, 96:8
December 1 42:16, 42:18
four thousand october 4th
111:10
January 2010 154:9
January 4, 2011 1:13
July 1 131:2
July 23rd 143:23, 150:3
July 23rd, 2010 150:13,
151:11
July 23rd. 150:15
July 24th 65:22
July 28 73:16, 73:17, 77:1
July 28, 29, 30, 31,
september 1, 2 70:12
July 28. 13:6
July 28th 65:23, 69:9
July 29 67:17
July 29th 70:20
July 9th, 2010 171:13, 172:1
July. 70:20
June 19. 131:1
June. 150:17, 186:3
May 28, 2009 13:15
may. 17:16, 40:4, 43:19,
53:9, 54:24, 76:9, 110:17,
114:23, 115:25, 141:12,
142:10, 150:25, 182:4,
182:13
November 16th, 2010
102:25
November 18th, 2010
107:16
November 19th 14:6
November 23 107:18
November 24 103:19
November. 37:23
October 12. 13:25, 18:16
September 10 69:9, 73:16
September 15 77:23
September 15, september
22, september 30, october 8
13:24
September 15th 79:6, 81:11,
82:9, 156:18
September 15th, september
21st 34:13
September 2010. 171:1
September 22nd 157:24
September 22nd, 2010
162:19
September 24, 2010. 235:15
September 3rd, 2010 15:22
September. 37:5, 40:23,
42:1, 81:16, 164:20
$1,950 66:19
$195,452 152:9
$217,452. 152:4
$26,500 37:13
$328,600 51:25
$670,000 50:23, 51:15
-numbered 239:4
< 0 >
09-CV-0988-F 1:6, 4:3
< 1 >
1 107:11, 108:4, 168:11,
182:12, 182:15, 185:2,
230:20, 231:4, 231:8, 238:40,
239:6
1-2 238:34
1. 183:1
1.69 214:24
1.8 218:15
10 83:2, 231:1
108 238:34
10th 113:16, 179:23
11 2:24, 101:5, 178:19,
199:13, 199:17, 220:3, 221:4,
224:10, 224:13, 234:4
1100 3:16
12 83:2, 231:1
12-41 238:41
1227 3:3
12th 15:3
13 28:15, 83:3
1300 1:39
14th 3:16
15 195:5
151 238:35
16 191:10, 191:25
16-17 238:42
16. 191:8, 191:24
1601 1:45, 2:4
17 188:17, 188:19, 191:25
17. 188:16
1700 2:47
1703 239:20
17th 8:18
18 83:3
183 238:46
191 238:42
1958. 117:19
1961 117:20
1966 118:3
1967 118:4, 118:9
1969 118:10
1969. 118:12
1972 117:16
1985 77:10
1997 118:13
1:30 146:24
1:30. 19:15
1:45. 116:14
< 2 >
2 44:22, 83:2, 108:4, 231:1,
238:41
2. 107:11, 168:11
20 77:2
200 1:39
2009 130:22, 132:14, 150:7
201. 17:20
2010 32:3, 77:23, 95:25,
132:23, 143:24, 157:25
2010. 132:15, 156:18, 164:18
21 18:19
21. 67:19
214-354-3139 3:18
214-658-6501 2:49
214/210-5940 2:20
214/526-0555 2:13
214/740-8662 1:34
214/855-7590 2:34
214/999-4422 2:6
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 240
USCA5 5219
214/999-4746 1:47
2200 1:32
2260 2:47
22nd 14:23, 106:22
230 238:41
231 238:40
238 239:6
24 75:22
25th 65:23
281-361-9103 3:12
295 26:20
< 3 >
3 1:6, 4:3, 151:3, 151:18,
168:12, 195:7, 238:35
30 26:20
3000 1:45, 2:4
30th 43:1, 70:21, 113:7,
171:4
3500 2:11
38 57:5, 238:43
3800 2:31
3:30 167:18
< 4 >
4 83:2, 231:1
4-10 238:41
4. 157:22, 168:13
41 83:11, 83:14, 231:1
41. 76:10, 83:3
419. 155:24
423. 156:5
45 238:44
46 238:45
47 230:20
4715 3:10
48 43:23
48. 45:5
4841 2:41
49 45:7, 45:11, 45:14, 57:5,
238:44
49. 45:9
490 43:8, 45:8
490. 45:4
< 5 >
5 45:14, 52:8, 168:10,
168:15, 168:16, 168:20
5. 157:21, 168:14
50 46:3, 46:5, 46:10, 46:18,
57:5, 238:45
50. 48:9, 57:4, 57:8
500 2:32
507(d)(5 195:15
51 182:6, 238:46
51. 182:3
521 43:16, 43:25
57 238:43
5th 230:12, 231:22, 232:6,
232:11, 236:13, 236:15,
236:18
< 6 >
6 172:25
6. 168:9, 171:17, 172:24
670804 2:18
< 7 >
7. 101:6
700 2:11
75201 1:33, 2:33, 2:48
75201-4761 1:46, 2:5
75219 2:12
75242 3:17
75246 2:42
75367 2:19
75409 3:4
756-2446 1:41
77345 3:11
< 8 >
8 44:5, 55:4
8(a 10:21
< 9 >
9 2:41
903 178:19
92260 1:40
949 1:41
972/977-7221 3:5
9th 164:21
< A >
ab 27:22
ability 29:6, 131:6, 176:1,
207:14
able 16:21, 17:6, 41:5, 95:17,
115:5, 127:14, 170:20, 183:4,
193:10, 213:11, 214:8,
215:23, 216:1, 217:18,
220:12, 225:2, 225:3, 225:20,
230:17
above 87:22, 87:24, 239:6
abrogate 73:19
abrogated 223:14, 223:15,
224:19
absence 68:22
absolute 212:21
Absolutely 44:1, 51:19,
126:11, 154:24, 155:14,
162:11, 176:4, 176:5, 187:3,
206:9, 216:15
abuse 130:1, 217:14, 228:25
abused 21:14, 21:15
abusive 228:9
accept 55:12
access 5:17, 5:18, 38:8,
213:11, 213:17, 214:2, 214:8,
214:25, 216:19, 218:15,
237:2
accessed 213:15, 213:16,
213:20, 214:4, 214:24
accomplish 181:16
according 68:4
account 5:17, 164:2, 214:18,
214:23, 223:2
accounted 230:24
accounts 5:24, 6:1, 6:18,
6:19
accurate 45:1, 190:23
accused 129:17, 167:1
accusing 55:21
achieve 26:19, 83:23, 84:4
acknowledge 24:5
acknowledged 82:1
across 104:12, 104:18
act 215:12
acting 59:9, 59:11, 59:14,
84:20, 228:14
action 47:13, 112:4, 130:22,
146:22, 170:1
actions 44:15, 61:20, 155:11
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 241
USCA5 5220
active 197:12, 197:15
actively 37:24, 166:7
activities 139:24, 156:20,
157:3, 162:3
Activity 77:18, 77:20, 94:9,
94:18, 94:25, 166:21, 167:2,
167:4
acts 218:6
actual 45:22, 86:3, 231:12
acute 23:3
add 203:10
adding 72:25, 73:8
addition 66:21, 122:23,
153:3, 181:11, 236:3
additional 16:19, 41:20,
51:25, 67:10, 85:5, 218:15,
234:12, 236:20
address 7:18
addresses 163:3
adequate 124:7
administrative 52:14,
188:22, 189:1, 192:23,
193:18, 201:18, 220:13
admissibility 183:12
admit 45:5, 107:25, 151:17,
230:21, 231:13
admitted 45:11, 46:6, 57:4,
57:5, 107:22, 108:4, 151:21,
183:14, 191:25, 231:1, 231:4,
231:8, 238:34, 238:35,
238:40, 238:41, 238:42,
238:44, 238:45, 238:46
admonished 130:23, 131:3,
131:11
admonishments 159:5
adopting 17:21
Adrian 88:13, 92:23
adversarial 44:15
adversary 179:6, 180:21,
200:8, 219:15
adverse 166:20
advice 75:3, 75:8, 208:20,
230:10
advise 115:7, 187:19
advised 4:16, 159:2, 159:11,
222:13
advising 230:8
Advisory 118:24
advocating 84:24
affairs 216:2, 236:5
affect 55:14
affidavits 28:5
affirmatively 81:13
affirmed 218:19
affixed 41:24
afternoon 9:1, 9:3, 79:8,
115:9, 116:14
agent 142:25
ago 9:23, 18:15, 24:18, 27:9,
137:18, 156:22
agree 25:9, 36:2, 55:22,
61:17, 71:5, 72:21, 92:3,
119:21, 121:16, 124:25,
141:5, 154:19, 173:17,
173:23, 180:16, 180:24,
181:9, 184:10, 186:16, 201:6,
201:15, 201:16, 202:8, 202:9,
205:25, 215:17, 221:24,
223:13, 223:22, 224:19
agreeable 53:14, 53:15
agreed 19:24, 33:12, 34:16,
35:25, 39:2, 65:20, 67:11,
67:25, 68:25, 69:20, 69:22,
69:23, 69:25, 73:23, 75:20,
77:6, 79:1, 82:2, 100:4,
100:5, 101:14, 101:15, 160:5,
184:11, 202:15, 203:3
agreements 36:10, 36:16,
68:8, 86:2, 86:4, 207:24,
208:17, 229:12
agrees 207:12
ahead 74:23, 118:1, 121:21,
172:9, 182:1, 205:17
Akard 2:32
AL 1:6, 1:12, 4:4
alarm 174:2, 178:2
Alarmed 51:24, 52:1, 52:22,
174:5, 174:14
alarming 52:17, 173:22,
178:1, 178:10, 178:11,
229:25, 230:1
alarming. 173:25
Aldous 233:22
allegation 225:25
allegations 149:10, 149:14,
154:16
alleged 111:6, 184:14
alleging 234:22
alleviate 140:10
allow 18:19, 34:5, 121:17,
179:22, 209:13, 231:6
allowed 26:18, 91:12,
102:12, 215:9, 236:1, 236:17
Almost 122:15, 138:14,
152:25, 153:25, 160:19,
167:17, 186:13, 212:10,
212:12
already 67:2, 69:16, 76:3,
82:11, 113:16, 169:13,
169:22, 169:23, 169:25,
170:17, 170:21, 215:1
alternative 169:1, 169:13,
169:20, 170:3, 217:18
alternatively 137:4
alternatives 159:11, 159:12
although 187:17, 214:8
Altman 109:19, 109:23
amazing 228:25
Amendment 230:12, 230:13,
231:22, 232:6, 232:12,
236:13, 236:15, 236:18
amongst 186:18
amount 13:18, 43:13, 43:14,
60:8, 60:14, 67:24, 67:25,
68:23, 72:9, 73:5, 76:23,
82:2, 94:17, 95:20, 124:19,
129:2, 135:8, 152:11, 173:3,
191:5, 193:18, 194:10,
195:19, 214:23, 215:15,
218:3, 218:22, 218:23, 219:4,
237:1
amounts 67:10, 110:6,
191:17
an injury 121:8
analysis 126:8, 192:16
analyze 73:22
analyzing 74:4
ancillary 29:16, 86:2, 86:4,
236:6
and/or 156:16
Anna 3:4
announced 34:12
Announcements 4:7
answer 18:17, 61:16, 64:6,
98:20, 109:20, 110:23,
125:21, 147:12, 148:1, 150:8,
176:12, 177:4, 181:12, 232:6,
232:10, 232:11, 232:20,
232:22, 233:2, 233:5, 233:8,
233:11, 233:14, 233:17,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 242
USCA5 5221
233:20, 233:23, 234:1, 234:5,
234:10, 234:14, 234:18,
234:25, 236:18
answered 199:6
answering 213:10
answers 147:24
anti-anxiety 133:6
anti-depressant 133:6
anticipated 92:16, 212:13,
222:5
Anxiety 122:4, 134:4, 138:1
anxious 133:20
Anybody 10:22, 31:15,
136:16, 149:6, 150:20,
177:11, 179:18, 195:8,
202:12, 223:22
apace 220:2
apart 107:1
apologize 12:1, 45:23
apparent 76:19, 103:8
Apparently 63:1, 80:7,
136:17, 162:13, 201:12
appeal 10:20, 20:23, 73:20,
218:10, 223:9, 235:4
appealed 73:23
appeals 15:23, 18:8
appear 8:7, 14:14, 16:7, 28:4
appearance 7:13, 7:23, 12:6,
19:17, 20:9, 21:4
appeared 43:4, 98:22,
163:12, 169:22, 170:21,
189:14, 190:3, 194:16,
202:19
appearing 2:37, 10:20, 21:6,
21:8, 78:23, 81:4
appears 55:4, 130:10,
191:11, 206:11, 215:19
appellate 4:9, 10:21, 21:7,
21:9
applicable 44:24
Application 9:7, 9:9, 9:10,
11:11, 27:14, 30:4, 42:21,
43:7, 44:5, 44:23, 45:4, 45:7,
46:4, 46:23, 47:8, 47:14,
48:13, 50:4, 50:18, 51:24,
57:7, 83:21, 150:5, 150:9,
150:19, 214:15
applications 15:14, 47:23,
116:20
applied 84:14
apply 214:14
appoint 26:21, 28:1, 204:9,
236:19
appointed 103:18, 103:19,
105:15, 105:16, 108:14,
174:18, 179:24, 203:4,
203:19, 236:4
Appointing 1:20, 161:15,
169:24, 179:21, 236:20
Appreciate 13:2, 20:16,
29:19, 62:25, 64:19, 114:8,
156:3, 226:13, 226:14,
226:15
appreciated 112:15
apprise 148:18
apprised 147:7, 148:15,
149:1, 153:6, 187:24
Approach 43:17, 117:23,
142:16, 150:24, 157:18,
171:15, 180:7, 182:3, 182:12
approached 65:1
appropriate 84:12, 152:21,
174:6, 198:6, 204:2
appropriately 174:15,
211:15
approval 127:25, 227:14
approve 202:17, 220:16,
220:17
approved 13:4, 38:18, 91:23,
92:1, 158:4, 161:24, 186:12,
190:15, 195:20
approving 47:14, 209:22,
209:24
Approximately 33:16, 34:23,
37:14, 66:6, 66:8, 66:9, 73:1,
75:13
April 169:4
aps 5:10
area 77:11, 177:21
arguable 53:4, 53:5
argue 55:8, 205:15
arguing 44:19, 46:24
argument 55:15, 205:14
arose 171:9
around 65:22, 73:17, 77:2,
140:24, 177:14, 187:9,
197:13, 202:25, 220:8
arrange 75:4
arrangements 224:25, 225:3
arrive 115:7
articles 118:19
Arts 118:2
aside 174:12, 193:4
asks 201:18
aspect 25:2
assert 79:18, 230:11
asserted 178:7, 192:5
asserting 230:12
asset 27:7, 41:19, 51:7,
223:5, 223:6
assist 19:22, 19:24, 106:6
assistance 132:22, 132:23
assisting 19:16, 19:18, 20:2,
162:24
assume 50:11, 130:18
assumed 8:18, 47:4, 130:17
Assuming 12:10, 92:1
Atlanta 118:3
Attached 9:23, 10:9, 28:5,
28:6, 45:22, 172:15, 172:16,
213:14
attacking 24:11
attempted 40:7, 74:5
attempting 10:25
attempts 81:3, 81:18, 208:15
attend 33:5, 33:7
attendance 101:21
attended 42:18, 90:13
attention 126:2, 174:8,
235:18
attitude 186:13
ATTORNEY 1:38, 2:46, 3:9,
7:15, 7:25, 10:18, 11:20,
27:10, 27:14, 28:17, 31:5,
35:19, 43:4, 43:5, 64:1, 65:4,
77:9, 84:14, 104:7, 104:9,
104:11, 143:5, 143:22,
144:17, 162:23, 163:6,
178:15, 188:11, 188:13,
194:4, 194:19, 202:5, 215:21
Attorney-client 39:5, 39:8,
39:12, 39:14, 39:17, 39:19,
63:21, 64:1, 64:5, 68:5,
99:17, 99:22, 102:10, 142:23,
143:1, 143:3, 143:8, 143:13,
146:15, 155:23, 178:7
August 13:8, 32:2, 37:5,
37:10, 67:12, 67:15, 75:16,
75:18, 76:21, 100:5, 150:7,
164:20, 184:24
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 243
USCA5 5222
auspices 206:21, 207:7,
207:23
authorities 235:5, 235:6
authority 26:22, 48:17,
48:18, 91:20, 103:5, 214:12,
221:6, 236:8
authorization 41:9
authorized 178:24, 179:1,
202:20
avail 209:8
available 5:15, 8:5, 8:10,
19:4, 19:5, 34:6, 75:8, 75:10,
100:25, 101:2, 115:10, 128:4,
193:18, 215:15, 216:8,
236:24, 237:1, 237:14
Avenue 2:11, 2:47
avoid 53:19, 54:1, 54:6,
54:11, 62:19, 137:17
avoiding 62:11
awaiting 106:5, 106:21
aware 5:14, 13:4, 25:4,
58:13, 59:3, 82:5, 93:9,
109:1, 109:10, 109:21,
130:21, 130:25, 131:1, 131:3,
131:10, 131:14, 136:20,
137:1, 193:22, 209:21
away 40:11, 40:16, 174:3,
176:2, 221:22
< B >
B. 2:40
baby 148:12
Bachelor 117:18
Back 13:14, 32:2, 34:25,
54:16, 59:1, 63:22, 67:21,
67:22, 69:3, 71:6, 71:23,
79:15, 90:21, 118:10, 130:22,
132:12, 132:25, 143:23,
149:4, 156:3, 157:24, 158:13,
174:21, 181:6, 197:8, 200:19,
202:18, 209:16, 222:12
back-up 97:15, 97:19, 98:13
background 20:10, 117:17,
121:25, 197:17, 197:19
backwards 166:12
bad 81:15, 217:9
badly 73:19
bag 175:6
balance 152:9
ballpark 150:11, 150:12
Bank 6:1, 6:18, 223:2
bankrupt 83:19, 201:19
banks 218:14
bar 28:14
Barrett102 238:17
Barrett114 238:20
Barrett117 238:22
Barrett31 238:9
Barrett50 238:11
Barrett85 238:14
Barry 1:43, 4:5, 4:15, 14:16,
16:4, 113:8
Based 22:11, 37:2, 39:7,
39:18, 43:13, 46:12, 46:16,
49:15, 60:10, 61:6, 67:12,
83:22, 100:6, 100:12, 122:7,
162:12, 162:15, 178:13,
189:9, 196:9, 199:25, 204:3,
217:6, 225:10, 227:23, 232:6,
232:11, 232:21
baseline 121:9, 121:15,
121:17, 124:10
bases 215:7, 216:5, 236:19
Basically 7:16, 9:17, 74:25,
108:12, 122:6, 169:24,
170:13, 196:21, 221:21
basis 44:20, 68:24, 69:4,
69:7, 70:6, 102:14, 143:6,
148:15, 159:3, 181:4, 194:20,
235:23
battery 120:4, 127:6
Beach 1:40
bearing 48:24
became 23:3, 76:18, 81:22,
93:16, 96:18, 97:2, 103:18,
197:12
Beck 122:3
become 74:14, 85:6, 166:20,
197:15, 198:2
beg 220:19
began 75:24, 197:16
begged 67:21
begin 9:5, 79:23, 127:19,
141:6
beginning 24:10, 114:2,
154:9, 195:1, 197:11
begun 128:5
behalf 7:24, 41:9, 43:9,
64:23, 74:8, 84:20, 85:21,
90:25, 92:11, 95:24, 142:24,
144:7, 218:22, 230:13
behavior 24:19, 131:11,
138:16, 185:6, 185:17, 208:4
behind 20:10, 148:8, 202:18,
209:16, 216:23, 228:7, 228:8
belief 108:6, 200:4, 200:5,
200:6
believed 50:1, 50:6, 50:8,
155:11, 162:4, 190:6
believes 206:25
bell 219:24
belongs 219:11
beneficial 184:3
beneficially 182:17
beneficiary 11:2, 42:6,
42:14, 51:2, 51:4, 51:9,
59:17, 94:2, 94:5
benefit 84:8, 84:21, 85:1
benefited 220:23
BENNETT 2:39
besides 116:5, 185:2
best 34:17, 54:17, 75:4,
89:16, 129:23, 209:11,
215:13, 228:14, 228:17
better 8:25, 9:2, 19:1,
124:12, 139:3, 150:8, 163:13,
180:11, 180:14, 190:5,
197:25
beyond 19:10, 128:15,
128:17, 141:1, 162:5, 174:21,
176:22, 177:8, 208:25,
217:11, 229:3
bgolden@gardere.com 1:48
bickering 44:20
big 13:4, 49:6, 186:15,
189:22
bill 66:15, 69:6, 70:4, 70:5,
71:5, 72:8, 72:12, 72:14,
72:17, 72:19, 72:25, 73:4,
73:8, 75:19, 76:14, 145:22,
152:3, 153:1, 187:12, 187:13,
187:20, 187:23, 187:25,
188:10, 188:11
billed 66:19
billing 38:4, 44:9, 44:10,
70:2, 70:3, 71:25, 147:7,
150:9, 153:4, 154:8
bills 56:23, 70:8
bind 41:18
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 244
USCA5 5223
binder 16:21, 16:23, 182:12
BISSELL 1:31
bit 78:24, 95:22, 100:2,
153:10, 153:12, 159:22,
189:15
bizarre 228:13
blood 133:22
blot 122:2, 122:10
blown 49:3
Board 55:24, 87:22, 87:24,
106:23, 118:24
boards 118:23
body 26:2, 26:5, 26:9, 26:13,
26:14, 26:16
boggling 228:15
bono 113:12
book 230:22
Borla 133:25
born 135:3
borrowing 81:21
bottom 191:14
bound 20:1, 196:18
Box 3:3
bragged 163:13
brand 15:21
breach 60:16, 91:17, 91:21,
92:4, 218:25, 219:16
breached 101:19, 229:11
break 6:22, 35:10, 38:10,
73:21, 116:19, 147:21,
147:24
Breezy 3:10
Brewer 14:8
brief 29:12, 236:9, 236:11
briefing 235:4
Briefly 18:6, 25:21, 25:22
bring 31:13, 35:6, 68:17,
79:19, 79:20, 84:15, 148:24,
149:21, 149:24, 205:6,
205:10, 206:20
bringing 126:2
Bristol 1:39
broke 60:2
broken 169:23
Broom 14:20, 62:4, 78:20,
111:3, 111:5, 111:9, 111:10,
112:7, 112:19, 195:21, 203:8,
203:10, 203:15, 212:19
brought 12:19, 19:20, 40:5,
174:8, 205:16, 208:22,
225:24
building 86:25, 87:18
bulk 154:8
bunch 11:19, 168:1
Bureau 58:5
business 9:5, 74:25, 96:22,
182:19, 183:24, 184:14
busy 148:13
BY MR. BARRETT 35:5,
36:24, 50:15, 71:22, 85:15,
87:21, 104:6, 105:13, 107:13,
108:5, 114:14, 117:7, 117:25,
121:22, 123:21, 124:14,
128:14, 148:3, 149:20, 150:2,
151:1, 152:1, 156:14, 158:18,
167:25, 173:1, 204:16, 205:8
BY MR. GOLDEN 138:11
BY MR. MACPETE 90:20,
92:9, 112:25, 135:21, 141:14,
198:18, 199:11, 201:21,
232:15
BY MR. ROOSSIEN 131:9,
132:17, 183:16, 184:21,
190:14, 191:9, 195:25
< C >
cajole 220:19
California 1:40, 159:7
call 4:2, 8:9, 14:6, 17:4,
19:13, 25:15, 29:20, 29:22,
29:25, 63:7, 65:1, 75:2,
76:20, 79:11, 80:7, 80:14,
114:25, 115:23, 116:1, 117:3,
142:12, 142:13, 145:17,
218:7, 225:22, 227:1, 231:21
called 8:4, 14:10, 15:1, 16:7,
31:16, 76:18, 106:1, 106:13,
115:14, 115:22, 180:4, 203:9,
207:4, 207:17, 226:16,
231:24
calling 29:9
Callingcards.telecom 58:23
calls 40:14, 79:8, 123:2,
203:2
candidly 49:4
capable 125:10, 125:12
capacity 32:6, 32:10, 64:19,
96:23, 129:12, 135:10
Capua 169:11, 195:11
car 81:15, 82:8
cardiovascular 133:24
cards 26:3, 142:7, 218:23
career 17:13
careful 112:13
carefully 171:11
Carolina 117:19
case-- 147:8
cases 37:19, 48:3, 48:7,
125:4, 129:14, 129:22, 135:9,
136:6, 159:7, 216:13
CASEY 3:14, 239:3, 239:14,
239:16
cash 214:4, 214:6
CASSIDI 3:14, 239:3, 239:16
category 130:15, 189:4
causation 121:11, 121:12,
124:10, 139:12, 139:14
cause 77:18, 140:9, 154:22,
176:24, 185:17, 219:7, 239:4
caused 94:18, 121:8,
125:18, 126:10, 129:22,
134:15, 137:10, 137:15,
138:4, 155:12, 164:4, 166:19,
170:19, 177:17, 212:22
causes 165:4
caution 27:25
cavalcade 14:10, 212:22
CD 213:22, 213:23, 214:3,
214:7
cell 66:19, 72:25, 73:8,
76:14, 76:18, 76:21, 77:2,
77:4, 229:2
Center 118:25
Certain 11:2, 13:18, 41:5,
63:2, 76:22, 95:19, 101:12,
101:13, 101:15, 125:11,
139:18, 173:3, 207:14, 218:6,
218:14, 234:21
Certainly 20:6, 46:5, 52:4,
86:5, 89:24, 98:21, 98:22,
101:18, 119:17, 122:22,
126:19, 128:16, 129:8, 132:1,
135:14, 137:11, 137:23,
140:21, 143:2, 146:3, 151:24,
172:11, 176:14, 178:1, 181:7,
183:12, 205:15, 208:21,
220:17, 225:6, 225:23,
225:25, 226:7, 226:11, 227:1
certify 239:3, 239:9
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 245
USCA5 5224
chain 174:18
challenge 47:15
challenged 75:4
chances 73:23, 73:24
change 60:15, 121:4, 186:13
changed 69:24, 77:7, 101:18
changing 202:23, 204:4,
212:22
chaos 24:6, 212:18, 212:21
Chapter 2:24, 101:5, 101:6,
199:13, 199:17, 220:3, 221:3,
224:10, 224:13, 234:4
characteristics 88:15
characterization 94:24
characterized 162:7
charge 237:15
charged 47:23, 47:24,
140:21
charges 66:20, 77:5, 142:4
charging 105:25, 106:2,
106:3
chart 166:11, 182:16, 184:2,
213:14
chase 75:7
cheap 81:20
checking 213:22, 214:4,
214:9, 214:18, 214:23
Chesnin 2:39, 2:40, 30:22,
30:23, 31:3, 31:5, 31:6,
31:10, 37:18, 102:3, 102:6,
102:9, 102:20, 103:10,
106:12, 108:6, 109:16,
110:16, 110:22, 111:2, 113:2,
114:15, 114:20, 168:11,
195:22, 203:2, 203:17,
238:16
children 44:20
choice 28:17, 198:4, 198:9,
198:11, 212:20, 223:7
choices 214:21
choose 140:17
choosing 93:16
Christmas 11:15
Christy 110:2
chronic 23:18
Circuit 15:22, 17:9, 24:5,
24:8, 24:17, 27:12, 204:21,
205:9, 231:20, 235:6
circumstances 48:24, 56:7,
56:23, 81:10, 84:13, 101:12,
134:16, 174:4, 208:25, 210:7,
210:8, 211:7
circumvent 27:16
citation 235:8, 235:12
cited 159:7
civil 236:16
claim 85:4, 108:20, 188:18,
188:23, 189:1, 192:9, 193:13,
193:18, 194:18, 195:8,
200:25, 201:8, 205:10, 220:8,
220:22, 222:7
claimants 220:13, 220:14
claiming 111:6, 227:4
claims 14:21, 52:14, 79:17,
79:18, 79:20, 80:19, 83:19,
88:13, 100:24, 100:25, 101:1,
105:21, 106:21, 146:4,
188:18, 188:22, 191:3, 191:4,
191:6, 191:12, 192:4, 192:5,
192:7, 192:11, 192:14,
192:16, 193:24, 194:2,
201:24, 205:19, 205:21,
211:2, 216:8, 220:15, 221:3,
222:6, 223:10, 224:24,
235:25, 236:1
clarification 63:11, 225:13
clarified 113:6
clarify 36:23, 47:6, 57:6,
61:16, 70:24, 86:12, 112:18,
161:21, 183:13, 183:17,
184:7
clash 169:8
class 14:12
classified 130:14, 130:19
clean 18:7, 113:12
clear 6:14, 6:21, 16:5, 36:21,
71:11, 79:15, 81:10, 81:22,
82:8, 84:6, 89:11, 92:21,
93:19, 113:18, 128:22,
162:24, 175:18, 184:13,
184:19, 208:14, 217:3, 217:8,
217:22, 223:22, 225:10,
227:24
clearly 217:2, 217:6, 217:15,
220:25, 221:1, 228:4
Cleveland 118:9
client 7:17, 20:20, 21:13,
27:10, 27:11, 42:2, 77:14,
97:15, 97:18, 134:16, 143:4,
145:7, 149:5, 149:9, 166:22,
169:19, 172:14, 183:21,
185:24, 209:7, 219:11, 224:3,
226:8, 226:9, 227:1, 227:19
clients 58:2, 97:14, 129:11,
129:23, 145:1, 148:9, 183:8,
190:7, 191:1, 192:21, 209:15,
218:20, 219:1, 219:13,
223:15, 225:18, 225:20,
227:3, 234:4
Clinic 133:13
Clinical 118:24, 120:5,
121:25
clinically 123:22
clock 19:6
close 37:15, 66:2, 139:22,
211:1, 216:11, 220:4, 220:12,
221:8, 223:11, 225:1, 225:3,
237:15
closed 211:5, 211:10, 211:16
closer 122:20
cloudy 222:17
cocounsel 7:14
Code 46:23, 178:17
Cohen 194:15, 195:11
coin 55:11
collaborative 85:18
collapse 13:13
collapsed 222:19
collateral 84:21, 85:1
colleague 235:21
collect 218:3, 235:22
collected 211:18, 211:21
collecting 224:9
College 117:19, 118:9
Colorado 203:9
combination 23:17
comes 193:13, 230:15
coming 13:17, 14:2, 14:9,
14:12, 21:18, 44:11, 79:15,
106:21, 106:22, 189:17,
222:10, 224:5, 227:17,
227:22, 237:17
commence 74:2
comment 78:3, 218:2
comments 40:1, 210:2,
225:14
Commerce 3:16
commingle 10:25
commit 126:23
committed 156:23
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 246
USCA5 5225
communicate 105:19,
115:11
communicating 112:19
communication 102:16,
106:14
communications 64:5,
102:12, 106:20, 143:3, 143:7
companies 134:20, 134:23,
134:25
Company 6:1, 33:1, 51:1,
51:7, 53:12, 53:19, 96:23,
191:4
comparable 48:7, 196:11
compare 121:10
comparison 121:15, 121:17
Compass 6:18
compel 218:6, 218:13
compelling 204:9
compensation 84:2
competency 135:15
competent 121:3, 121:12,
173:25, 211:9, 228:16,
228:17, 228:18
compilation 192:13
complain 145:7
complete 12:6, 12:13, 13:11,
24:1, 189:7, 189:12, 222:3
completed 12:10, 13:13,
13:16, 179:14, 192:10
completely 21:14, 28:8,
35:15, 99:22, 149:16, 161:19,
169:3, 170:1, 173:8, 174:21,
196:22, 204:15, 208:20,
226:14, 228:20, 229:8, 229:9
complex 227:8
compliance 174:12, 202:3,
206:20
complicated 166:9, 166:10
complied 33:22, 204:11,
206:19, 207:1, 218:20, 234:7,
234:15
comply 33:19, 204:10,
207:8, 207:9, 207:18, 207:20,
207:24, 208:17, 217:23,
239:9
complying 204:6, 207:6,
208:9, 216:2, 216:4
components 222:1, 222:3
computer 35:9, 38:5, 38:6
concept 159:10
conceptually 186:14
concern 40:17, 83:15,
126:18, 146:14, 170:19,
170:20, 170:22, 207:25,
209:10, 226:3
concerned 14:5, 15:5, 41:13,
51:15, 100:23, 105:24,
163:22, 174:8, 174:23,
184:25, 189:7, 196:20, 208:6,
226:1
concerning 11:19
concerns 40:6, 40:8, 41:15,
41:17, 227:2
concessions 69:21
conclude 41:21, 167:23,
228:19
concluded 52:12, 221:17
conclusion 44:5, 61:12,
98:12, 130:4, 200:2, 226:17,
226:18
conclusions 61:6, 136:19
concurred 122:25
concussion 81:16
condition 121:13, 123:12,
123:16, 123:17, 130:9,
134:13, 134:14, 134:15,
134:20, 135:3
conditions 129:22, 134:3,
225:21
conduct 22:9, 25:7, 61:8,
100:14, 130:24, 154:21,
156:24, 188:2, 200:1, 204:4,
208:18, 215:8, 215:11,
215:14, 215:24, 217:8,
217:11, 220:5, 226:19, 229:5,
230:1, 234:3
conducted 135:22
conducting 203:6, 209:2
Conference 13:7, 77:22,
77:25, 78:2, 79:8, 82:9,
113:7, 131:2, 145:17, 194:16,
197:16, 199:21, 239:10
conferences 196:15
confidentially 223:3
confirm 122:8
confirming 9:14
conflict 103:20, 104:13,
104:25, 160:8, 180:20,
216:24
conflict-of-interest 104:19,
104:22
conflicted 166:6
confused 70:16
confusing 173:12
conjunction 121:14, 219:7
connection 63:20, 64:24,
65:6, 144:1, 144:14, 201:17
consent 13:20, 91:13
consequences 101:9
conserve 211:5
consider 8:14, 49:21, 89:6,
126:21, 179:17, 185:6,
218:10, 229:14, 229:22
consideration 179:16, 185:1
considered 26:15, 105:6,
134:19, 134:22, 189:1
considering 15:12
consisting 52:14
constant 40:14, 229:22
constantly 60:1, 60:15,
186:2
constituted 69:10
Constitutional 28:17, 39:7
consult 185:18
consummated 184:10,
184:12
consummating 65:7
contact 115:4, 115:8, 149:23,
164:9, 164:13, 164:25,
166:18
contacted 105:22, 113:8,
169:14
contacting 58:5
contacts 164:11
contained 200:15, 200:17
contempt 53:20, 54:1, 54:4,
54:6, 62:11, 62:19, 131:15,
137:17, 159:9, 227:23,
227:25
contemptuous 208:5
contend 46:8
context 126:11, 126:12,
230:19, 236:2
contingency-fee 194:20
continual 189:17
continually 204:4
continue 105:10, 215:11,
215:24, 216:19, 221:5,
222:23, 227:15
continued 8:18, 41:1, 69:4,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 247
USCA5 5226
113:9, 222:22
continues 216:18
continuing 24:20, 69:2,
216:6, 237:17
contract 32:4, 32:6, 60:15,
60:16, 60:17, 144:20, 144:25,
145:3, 145:6, 145:8, 152:20,
152:24
contractual 145:12, 145:15,
222:3
contrary 48:9, 228:12
contribute 220:18
contributing 220:25
contribution 83:18, 83:22,
83:25, 84:3, 84:13, 85:4,
100:24, 188:17, 188:23,
188:25, 193:13, 193:24,
194:2, 194:18, 195:8, 195:16,
200:7, 201:18, 205:19,
205:21, 211:2, 212:5, 220:14,
222:17, 224:24, 236:1
contributions 210:12,
211:23
control 30:10, 42:9, 54:17,
224:7
controlling 40:11
contumacious 208:4
conversation 69:20, 70:1,
100:13
conversations 65:15, 68:10,
91:24, 99:14
convinced 106:1
Cook 86:22, 87:1, 87:3, 87:6,
87:10, 87:13, 87:16, 87:17,
157:14, 158:20, 161:6, 161:8,
161:14, 162:17, 163:10,
163:11, 164:7, 168:2, 169:2,
169:18, 170:23, 171:12,
174:20, 175:1, 175:16,
177:16, 184:18, 223:1,
231:11
cooperated 225:16
cooperating 13:8, 13:9,
14:24
cooperation 193:5
copies 83:7
copy 45:3, 76:9, 150:18,
151:6, 151:8, 180:2, 235:13
corp 92:2
corporate 11:1, 93:6
corporations 11:3, 86:14,
87:8
corps 59:4, 91:8
correctly 44:23, 47:19,
160:14, 160:16, 197:8
correspondence 11:15
cost 234:3, 236:23
costing 12:15
costs 192:23
counsel. 18:17
counseled 176:21
counseling 229:22
count 126:5
counter-claim 200:17
counting 37:21
couple 5:7, 17:15, 21:15,
27:9, 29:5, 47:6, 76:13,
96:24, 103:14, 158:14, 193:1,
229:6
course 7:5, 10:3, 30:8,
115:21, 118:17, 127:20,
127:25, 128:5, 141:7, 142:22,
142:24, 155:22, 180:19,
211:17, 216:25, 217:22,
226:2, 228:1
court-ordered 80:19, 194:16
courteous 101:22
courtroom 11:23, 22:10,
22:13, 22:15, 22:24, 31:16,
80:17, 115:17, 136:16,
136:20, 169:15, 221:11
Courts 9:25, 10:1, 15:23,
131:24, 157:6, 159:16, 162:6,
163:18
cover 128:6, 213:7, 230:18
Cox 4:14, 4:22, 4:24, 5:6,
5:20, 6:3, 6:17, 96:17, 195:24
CPA 103:3
Craig 169:11, 195:11
crawl 178:12
crazy 51:20
create 24:13, 74:18, 101:4,
219:18, 237:17
created 14:18, 24:4, 24:6,
24:14
creating 23:3, 131:6
credence 123:7
credentials 118:1
credible 229:8
credit 26:3
creditor 192:9
creditors 101:7, 155:4,
155:8, 162:6, 170:16, 175:5,
175:24, 176:22, 192:7,
192:25, 193:11, 193:19,
193:20, 220:10, 222:24,
225:5
criminal 129:14, 135:9,
154:21, 155:11, 156:24,
166:21, 167:1, 167:4, 167:5,
167:6, 167:9, 194:25, 236:14
criminal. 167:8
Crisis 118:25
criteria 88:18
Cross 38:15, 57:12, 76:11,
90:19, 110:12, 112:16,
112:24, 135:20, 138:10,
141:13, 149:17, 198:17,
228:14, 238:10, 238:12,
238:13, 238:15, 238:18,
238:19, 238:23, 238:24,
238:25, 238:26
cross-designated 115:3
cross-examined 123:9
crossed 20:10, 209:16
CSR 239:20
curable 134:20
curb 95:3
curious 120:17, 167:12
current 5:22, 141:21, 161:7,
177:10, 186:24, 192:17,
192:23
currently 113:1, 192:22,
193:2, 221:18
curtain 228:8, 228:9
custody 26:16, 227:21
cut 69:3, 77:1
cutting 101:17
CV 117:21, 129:10
< D >
daily 70:2, 72:1
DALLAS 1:3, 1:33, 1:46, 2:5,
2:12, 2:19, 2:33, 2:42, 2:48,
3:17, 118:25, 133:14, 163:7,
170:12, 239:19
damage 125:18
damages 125:5, 125:8,
125:10, 125:11, 125:13,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 248
USCA5 5227
128:17, 128:21, 128:23,
219:24
Dan 109:19, 109:23
Daniel 2:24, 52:10, 52:11
date 33:13, 33:15, 33:17,
34:16, 40:19, 40:24, 150:6,
150:10, 157:4, 192:23,
211:18
dated 107:16, 107:17,
151:11, 171:25
dates 197:13
David 107:5
Davidson 117:19
Day 24:20, 33:24, 41:10,
41:11, 41:12, 41:17, 42:4,
42:8, 51:4, 51:7, 75:2, 75:9,
76:20, 77:16, 80:17, 106:4,
108:14, 108:16, 110:15,
113:12, 116:19, 137:5,
160:24, 174:18, 203:4,
203:19, 212:4, 222:12, 229:2,
229:25
day-to-day 139:24
days 11:10, 14:7, 14:8,
18:19, 33:13, 34:15, 34:19,
34:20, 34:21, 42:25, 66:8,
66:9, 67:16, 67:21, 70:10,
70:15, 75:9, 75:11, 75:20,
77:23, 78:25, 131:10, 148:12,
222:25
deadline 65:23
deal 101:17, 166:15, 196:3,
197:23, 209:18, 210:17,
220:18, 221:6, 226:9, 226:22,
230:6
dealing 24:11, 108:23, 173:9,
176:18, 203:13
dealings 65:10
dealt 24:15, 126:6, 230:5
Dean 3:8, 7:24, 30:25, 35:1,
61:23, 62:2, 64:11, 64:13,
159:23
debt 225:7
debtor 50:25, 52:12, 209:24
debts 191:20, 191:21, 222:11
December 113:16, 132:13,
132:23, 213:13
decent 209:6, 228:10
deceptive 24:18
decide 209:11
decided 216:9
decision 178:13, 223:8,
228:2, 228:3
decisions 88:19, 99:3, 99:4,
99:16
declarations 28:6
declaratory 200:15
declined 24:18
deep 207:25, 209:10, 210:14
deeper 49:22
deeply 112:15
Defendant 1:13, 119:22,
119:24
defendants 159:8
defer 192:10
defined 134:7
defining 136:10
Definitely 141:8, 166:1,
182:25, 194:7, 194:11,
194:13, 194:17
defrauded 220:7
degree 117:18
degreed 185:14
delay 101:23, 212:6
deliberate 40:8
delighted 25:14
delve 49:22
demanded 98:15
demise 190:9
demonstrative 195:5, 231:9,
231:14
denied 167:1
Dennis 2:27, 7:1
deny 30:6, 153:20, 223:9
denying 30:7
department 118:11, 118:12,
118:16
depend 143:13
deposit 193:4
deposition 46:1, 49:21, 50:1
depositions 119:5
depressed 122:13, 138:13,
138:24, 139:8, 139:9, 139:10,
139:16, 139:19, 141:16,
209:4, 209:5, 229:17
Depression 122:3, 130:8,
130:9, 134:4, 134:7, 134:10,
137:9, 137:11, 137:21, 138:4,
139:4, 139:5, 139:13, 140:9,
140:12, 141:17, 141:19,
141:22, 237:9
deprived 28:18
derived 72:23, 73:6
describing 90:22
designates 237:3
designed 122:5, 234:3
desired 79:3
desires 8:13
desperately 81:20
despite 208:15
detailed 153:6, 182:22
details 109:14, 155:5, 198:3
detention 26:9, 26:14, 208:4
determination 46:13
determine 45:24, 124:10,
137:21
determined 46:14, 47:10,
54:17, 60:11, 192:8, 192:11
determining 135:9, 137:9,
138:4, 198:6
detriment 210:13
detrimental 225:14
development 124:9, 212:6
developments 189:9
devoted 76:17, 77:3
diagnose 135:25, 136:2
diagnoses 133:16, 134:2,
134:24, 136:6
diagnosis 122:7
Diagnostic 130:16, 134:7
difference 161:14, 227:17
different 22:20, 23:24, 80:8,
107:20, 122:11, 163:3, 169:3,
170:14, 196:12, 196:22,
224:25
differently 21:22
difficult 89:21, 89:23, 89:24,
166:4, 181:12, 181:13,
181:16, 185:8, 185:11,
186:16, 186:17, 186:18,
189:24, 189:25, 210:25,
225:6, 226:9
diligent 165:18
diminishes 193:17, 193:18
Direct 31:21, 89:4, 102:4,
110:13, 117:6, 136:19, 160:8,
232:14, 238:9, 238:17,
238:22, 238:28
directed 8:17, 28:21, 29:1,
40:13, 59:3, 93:23
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 249
USCA5 5228
directing 225:17
direction 53:2, 73:21, 91:9,
228:11
directive 59:7
directly 197:1
disagree 56:24, 154:18
disagreement 69:14, 69:16,
81:14
disbursing 5:12
disciplinary 181:6
disclosing 146:19
discounted 75:16, 76:3
discretion 27:25
discuss 75:2, 81:3, 214:5
discussed 57:20, 68:7, 68:9,
68:13, 77:5, 79:14, 84:25,
89:25, 90:11
discussing 200:14
discussion 29:8, 41:8, 62:5,
72:16, 100:3, 199:20, 206:1,
209:20
discussions 59:22, 93:9,
165:9, 169:5, 187:22, 198:20,
200:1
dismiss 13:20, 216:12
dismissal 12:23, 23:15,
33:12, 34:16, 221:17
dismissed 13:10, 14:1, 14:4,
15:8
dismissing 12:9
disorder 129:25, 130:5,
130:13, 130:15, 130:16,
130:18, 134:5, 134:7, 134:10,
134:12, 134:13, 134:22,
136:9
disorders 134:25, 136:1,
136:3, 136:7, 136:13
disposition 26:19, 26:23,
26:25, 27:2, 27:6, 201:6
dispositions 25:24
dispute 27:10, 45:19, 73:18,
89:24, 235:22
disputes 15:1, 27:7, 105:17,
234:16
dissolve 237:13
distinction 210:1
distinguish 89:8, 236:7
DISTRICT 1:1, 1:2, 3:15,
15:23, 27:25, 75:25, 76:2,
136:22, 136:23, 178:24,
200:20, 239:17, 239:18
divided 106:4
dividend 192:25
dividing 234:20
DIVISION 1:3, 239:19
divorce 183:24
Docket 29:14, 43:8, 43:16,
43:25, 45:4, 45:8, 155:24,
155:25
Doctor 123:16, 124:8,
130:21, 131:7, 131:22,
132:18, 133:3, 133:7, 134:9,
138:12, 141:15
doctoral 118:3
Document 12:9, 17:20,
23:11, 32:18, 43:25, 50:16,
52:7, 52:11, 60:18, 148:21,
151:4, 166:15
documentation 106:6
documented 68:6
documents 9:6, 12:8, 41:12,
68:17, 83:1, 83:4
Doing 5:10, 20:14, 32:16,
32:17, 69:5, 73:13, 90:22,
91:19, 94:12, 96:7, 96:21,
99:6, 102:13, 131:6, 135:13,
136:18, 143:5, 148:8, 162:25,
178:5, 190:5, 196:15, 217:3,
222:22
dollar 67:7, 68:23, 70:19,
73:2, 73:4, 76:23, 124:19,
145:21, 149:14, 191:5
domain 34:2, 40:16, 182:19,
184:1, 214:22, 224:3, 224:8,
234:21
domestic 129:18
done 5:6, 14:2, 37:19, 37:22,
39:13, 44:14, 46:25, 69:24,
82:1, 82:2, 120:4, 125:25,
126:20, 127:23, 135:8,
149:12, 188:13, 208:10,
208:14, 210:10, 211:6,
216:25, 218:11, 219:20,
221:2, 223:10, 226:7
door 39:1, 39:4, 39:16,
227:13
doubts 81:7
down 12:16, 27:9, 35:6,
44:19, 55:8, 97:1, 109:17,
147:21, 147:24, 214:20,
221:9, 222:4, 222:15, 235:10,
235:11
downfall 190:9
dozen 21:15, 212:10
draft 85:23, 161:25
drafted 85:17, 159:24,
172:20
drag 212:14
drain 222:5, 222:15
draw 236:17
Drawer 2:18
Drive 3:10
driving 134:6, 166:17
drug 133:6
drugs 133:17
DSM 130:19
due 10:3, 27:21, 28:9, 28:12,
28:22, 29:13, 113:16, 141:17,
206:2
During 23:8, 35:10, 60:21,
62:6, 76:21, 82:16, 84:23,
95:24, 120:13, 138:12, 147:8,
148:10, 153:8, 185:4, 187:2,
187:23, 189:16, 189:21,
198:19, 198:25, 199:12,
204:5, 239:3
duties 92:11, 126:18, 222:23,
225:4
< E >
e-mail 11:14, 34:24, 35:11,
40:13, 68:6, 68:7, 68:9,
68:13, 68:19, 72:9, 106:8,
106:20, 106:24, 107:16,
107:17, 108:15, 151:9,
151:11, 151:16, 168:16,
168:22, 171:1, 171:18,
171:25, 172:3, 172:4, 172:15,
172:16, 172:20, 174:18
e-mailed 106:13, 113:10
e-mails 34:22, 34:25, 35:6,
37:25, 40:16, 53:15, 54:15,
63:2, 63:22, 68:10, 68:12,
68:21, 81:19, 103:8, 106:11,
106:18, 107:14, 107:19,
148:21, 148:23, 148:25,
149:4, 149:6, 149:8, 149:24,
168:1, 168:5, 168:11
earlier 22:8, 57:15, 124:25,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 250
USCA5 5229
150:16, 154:7, 171:5, 187:21,
200:12, 202:4
earliest 206:8
early 116:19, 156:18, 218:22,
219:12
earnest 208:15
earth 153:16, 154:10
earthly 208:11
easier 43:22
easily 19:8, 60:19
easy 214:22, 219:10
Eckels 5:6, 5:20, 6:5, 6:17,
9:9, 74:22, 79:7, 195:23
economically 52:13
edge 122:17, 122:21
educational 117:17
effect 124:4, 124:19
effectively 37:20, 52:13,
74:11, 74:14, 175:9
effectuated 220:19
effort 80:18, 85:18, 105:10,
105:20, 108:8, 115:10,
217:14, 217:19, 217:24,
225:16
efforts 39:24, 83:22, 105:19,
209:8, 228:5
egregious 228:21
eight 131:10, 186:4
eighteen 137:6
eighty-eight 213:20
Either 9:24, 16:7, 19:21,
56:21, 70:20, 81:3, 83:5
elaborate 81:9, 189:15
elected 131:17
element 45:18
eleven 55:10
Elizabeth 74:10, 145:17,
145:19, 168:17, 168:22,
169:6, 171:25, 172:5, 195:11
Elm 1:45, 2:4
Email 1:35, 1:48, 2:7, 2:14,
2:21, 2:35, 2:43, 3:6
emergency 137:25, 156:12,
164:5, 165:5, 166:19, 173:22,
217:1, 217:5
emeritus 117:14
Emery 118:2, 118:4
emotional 120:21, 120:23
employed 27:24, 31:25,
32:1, 32:3, 32:4, 64:12,
102:20, 102:24, 117:11,
143:21, 143:23, 144:1
employee 96:18
employees 5:8, 74:10,
74:12, 74:14, 92:22, 93:7,
93:14, 93:23, 94:6, 94:8
employers 113:8
enabled 84:3
encompasses 25:2
end 4:16, 12:18, 15:17,
15:18, 27:3, 27:4, 30:3, 44:4,
46:24, 47:15, 49:7, 49:13,
67:18, 70:20, 71:15, 83:14,
98:21, 99:5, 115:6, 115:22,
164:16, 167:12, 199:22,
207:12, 218:5, 221:12,
221:15, 222:21
endeavor 198:16
ended 13:5, 81:20, 94:12,
196:16
ends 84:19
enemy 190:20
enforce 207:14, 210:4,
215:25
engage 162:3, 215:13,
215:23
engaged 94:25, 173:19,
186:4, 234:3
engagement 145:15, 145:23
engaging 154:22, 234:7
enlarged 133:23
enough 46:13, 46:15, 46:16,
49:2, 57:1, 60:1, 60:6, 87:20,
103:10, 124:8, 133:21, 136:6,
154:4, 166:16, 193:10, 206:6
enter 36:25, 54:7, 150:4,
218:9, 236:25
entered 11:22, 25:1, 26:25,
36:20, 60:7, 86:3, 114:1,
150:21, 206:16, 206:21,
207:22
entire 18:24, 69:8, 112:7,
176:17, 187:2
entirely 224:25
entities 40:12, 83:18, 86:14,
91:4, 91:13, 92:19, 94:6,
182:17, 183:7, 183:8, 183:9,
183:25, 184:4, 201:1, 224:6
entitle 219:17
entitled 81:25, 82:7
entity 32:12, 41:18, 59:16,
74:18, 92:17, 92:18
entreaties 208:19
entry 183:10
envelope 17:5
environmental 134:16
equipped 227:10
equity 236:4
Eric 195:10
Especially 175:24, 186:3,
207:4
essence 96:14, 97:6, 137:3
essential 203:17
Essentially 14:20, 25:3,
41:19, 65:20, 75:8, 77:13,
86:24, 91:4, 133:4, 144:19,
146:18, 156:23, 158:9, 160:4,
160:25, 173:19, 183:24,
200:19, 200:20, 200:24,
201:4, 205:10, 209:23, 224:4
establish 121:11, 121:12,
231:10
established 231:11, 231:25
estate 50:23, 50:25, 83:16,
83:19, 83:24, 84:2, 85:7,
86:6, 86:11, 86:12, 101:1,
192:22, 192:25, 193:2,
201:19, 210:14, 220:23,
222:2, 222:10, 223:11
estimate 129:2
estimated 173:3
ET 1:6, 1:12, 4:4
Etcetera 229:12
ethical 154:22, 155:12
evaluate 123:22
evasion 223:6
eve 131:16
event 108:6, 184:24
events 126:7, 138:5
Eventually 202:25
everybody 143:11, 161:11,
206:25, 211:11, 217:12,
221:9, 221:12
Everyone 23:25, 196:18,
225:5, 225:10
everything 24:2, 40:15,
40:17, 44:18, 122:19, 165:12,
165:14, 165:16, 181:6,
210:10, 211:12, 211:16,
214:18, 227:24, 228:19,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 251
USCA5 5230
229:11
everywhere 52:24
evidence 21:21, 29:2, 48:8,
98:18, 150:22, 223:2, 227:3,
230:18, 231:13
evidentiary 126:13
exact 37:16, 40:24, 73:2,
73:5, 150:6
exactly 70:15, 135:12,
156:21, 189:3, 205:25
EXAMINATION 31:21, 38:15,
50:14, 57:12, 76:11, 85:14,
90:19, 102:4, 112:16, 112:24,
114:13, 117:6, 135:20,
138:10, 138:12, 141:13,
142:23, 143:9, 149:17,
198:17, 232:14, 238:4
examinations 121:23, 127:7,
136:18
examiner 110:13
examining 130:3
example 41:10, 96:17
examples 153:5, 188:15
exceed 100:25, 101:2
exceeded 125:19
Excellent 10:5, 17:8
except 55:9, 98:9, 234:8
exceptions 20:13
excess 75:22, 76:1, 77:5,
131:23
excessive 95:2
Excuse 36:3, 71:19, 123:14,
149:3
excused 4:17, 63:5, 63:15,
101:21, 114:9, 142:9, 210:19
execute 23:11, 34:15
executed 33:12
exhausted 70:9, 70:10,
70:12
EXHIBITS 9:22, 10:9, 16:14,
45:20, 45:21, 76:9, 83:2,
107:11, 230:20, 231:1,
238:30
existing 97:16, 97:19
exit 56:4
expect 8:20, 50:6, 56:18,
128:9, 236:24
expectation 56:22
expectations 50:3
expected 68:23, 94:14,
212:14
expecting 76:16
expedite 156:2, 156:4,
156:10, 156:11, 164:19,
176:13, 177:15
expedited 156:12, 163:22,
164:5, 165:6, 177:17, 181:4,
182:2, 184:25
expeditiously 156:19, 157:3
expending 209:14
expense 6:8, 129:2, 189:1
expenses 37:15, 37:16,
76:15, 101:15, 128:7, 128:11,
201:18
experience 82:4, 118:5,
120:18, 127:5, 196:10
expert 103:23, 104:1,
104:24, 105:6, 119:3, 119:7,
119:8, 119:11, 119:13,
119:19, 123:5, 124:9, 125:7
expertise 123:18
Explain 5:2, 24:13
explained 79:12
explaining 73:25, 74:4
explicit 119:11
exposing 188:22
expresses 83:14, 83:15
extend 112:13
extensive 185:22, 197:19
extent 70:7, 103:12, 106:14,
214:25
extraordinary 27:24
extreme 185:12
extremely 173:25
eye 19:6
eyes 208:21
< F >
faced 86:18, 198:5
facilitate 210:11
facilitated. 207:10
facilitating 196:14
factor 138:3
Facts 24:11, 24:16, 37:2,
98:18, 100:6, 100:7, 178:12,
178:13
failed 55:12, 115:11
failure 55:11, 103:22
Fair 41:2, 44:8, 51:12, 57:1,
57:22, 58:8, 86:7, 87:20,
89:17, 93:4, 94:4, 94:5,
94:22, 95:4, 95:7, 95:11,
95:12, 103:10, 108:10,
108:12, 122:17, 135:8, 148:1,
166:16, 185:22, 189:11,
191:2, 197:5, 197:6, 203:21,
204:3, 206:6
fairly 139:2, 147:25
faith 208:13, 208:15, 209:2,
209:7, 210:10, 226:23
falls 189:4
false 60:11
familiar 103:11, 104:13,
108:19, 108:20, 108:22,
109:15, 109:23, 111:2, 159:5,
178:17, 178:19, 178:25,
182:6, 196:2, 196:6, 198:3,
204:17, 205:9
familiarity 191:16
familiarize 168:6
family 159:12
far 14:5, 15:5, 132:12,
132:25, 136:15, 140:17,
143:9, 185:22, 191:17, 192:4,
196:19, 208:6, 213:11,
225:17
fashion 190:7
faster 218:16
favor 13:1
FDIC 39:11
features 28:9
February 154:8, 197:13
Federal 10:21, 27:11, 97:11,
108:24, 159:16, 162:6,
200:17
Fee 5:10, 27:7, 27:10, 27:14,
36:4, 42:21, 43:7, 44:5,
44:23, 45:7, 47:8, 47:14,
50:18, 57:7, 68:5, 69:6,
69:16, 70:8, 72:11, 72:16,
100:4, 100:5, 116:20, 141:3,
146:4, 149:15, 150:5, 150:9,
150:19, 198:21, 206:13,
226:21
feel 8:25, 9:2, 49:9, 79:20,
138:21
feeling 8:23, 139:1
fees. 46:25
feet 197:4
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 252
USCA5 5231
felt 44:10, 44:12, 48:15,
48:23, 49:20, 54:20, 75:1,
79:17, 82:3, 82:6, 84:15
fence 184:5
Ferguson 7:24, 30:25, 31:4,
31:11, 31:13, 35:1, 61:23,
62:2, 62:12, 63:8, 63:19,
64:11, 64:13, 71:23, 76:13,
83:12, 85:16, 90:21, 95:18,
100:21, 101:21, 103:18,
136:21, 159:23, 160:9,
183:24, 194:7, 198:5, 200:25,
201:9, 203:22, 207:4, 229:1,
229:4, 233:6, 234:9, 234:16
few 9:25, 11:9, 25:19, 29:9,
42:25, 77:23, 83:6, 129:7,
137:18, 181:18
fiduciary 222:23, 224:1,
225:4
fifteen 35:8, 106:3, 126:5
fifteen. 14:22
Fifth 15:22, 17:9, 24:5, 24:8,
24:17, 27:12, 204:21, 205:9,
231:20, 235:6
fifty 212:8
fifty-two 152:6
Figer 194:23, 234:8
fight 211:12
fighting 4:19
figure 21:16, 38:23
figures 211:22
file 18:16, 49:6, 56:9, 59:4,
63:12, 74:5, 91:12, 111:12,
131:17, 155:1, 164:5, 177:17,
179:16, 193:23, 194:1,
202:18, 213:13
files 112:3, 167:3, 167:5
filing 5:10, 49:13, 55:16,
83:1, 92:2, 92:3, 140:24
filings 11:9, 32:18, 83:7
filled 118:15
final 26:19, 46:23
finalize 5:7
finalized 65:21
finally 41:24, 47:10, 77:24,
203:2, 226:21
find 35:11, 38:17, 40:25,
41:15, 64:4, 74:13, 79:19,
79:22, 80:2, 81:18, 88:13,
88:16, 89:21, 92:19, 93:12,
159:10, 163:17, 167:5
finding 28:1, 30:2, 62:18,
86:16, 93:13, 170:8, 188:12,
190:7
findings 28:7
fine 7:22, 16:8, 39:15, 41:25,
43:15, 51:13, 107:12, 137:4,
184:14
fingers 20:9, 209:16
finish 29:11, 74:17, 85:24,
147:10, 159:23, 177:4
finished 101:25
fire 24:2, 216:1
firing 24:6, 216:3, 226:1
firm 9:8, 14:19, 14:21, 74:10,
74:11, 92:16, 144:3, 148:10,
148:13, 152:3, 154:2, 156:16,
169:10, 169:11, 194:23,
233:13, 233:16, 233:19
firms 102:22
Five 22:3, 67:1, 67:5, 67:6,
67:9, 70:9, 70:10, 70:15,
70:17, 70:19, 71:14, 71:17,
77:2, 79:8, 97:19, 109:2,
109:11, 121:20, 131:24,
178:21, 212:16, 212:23,
219:6, 222:18, 229:2, 235:7
five-part 45:15
five-year 98:6
Five. 96:10
flat 67:11, 68:22, 73:4, 100:5,
146:4, 149:15
flipping 55:11
Floor 3:16
Florida 159:8
fluid 40:23
folks 192:8
follow 89:5, 230:9
follow-up 57:2, 196:1
following 115:12, 227:12
force 8:19, 193:4
forcing 164:1
foregoing 239:6
foregoing-styled 239:4
foreign 159:3, 159:15
Forest 60:19
forever 21:4, 211:11, 211:17,
217:13
forgot 128:15
forgotten 100:3
form 21:24, 74:15, 91:20,
190:7
formalized 177:14
format 239:9
formation 185:1
formed 21:22, 170:24, 200:1
former 5:22, 7:25, 78:11,
82:6, 191:3
forming 136:19
forms 93:6
formulated 175:16, 177:16
forth 15:14, 16:17, 36:4,
46:9, 46:20, 54:16, 63:23,
120:19, 120:24, 149:5,
226:23
Forty 20:14, 20:15, 21:2,
21:4, 131:23, 208:23
forty-eight 236:10
forty-five 66:8, 66:9, 67:16
forty-one 152:12
forward 7:21, 16:11, 31:14,
31:18, 34:25, 48:22, 80:24,
131:15, 146:24, 147:18,
156:19, 157:2, 179:22,
179:25, 185:21, 186:22,
189:18, 190:3
forwards 166:12
found 37:3, 41:12, 62:10,
79:22, 90:6, 90:8, 137:15,
145:5, 146:20, 169:1, 179:19,
227:12
foundation 109:4, 109:6,
110:10, 110:11, 110:12,
110:13, 124:12, 124:23
Four 13:5, 13:8, 37:8, 75:25,
111:25, 122:1, 152:6, 153:4,
160:24, 181:25, 187:22,
195:11
four. 181:25, 212:9
fours 205:20
fourteen 222:25, 224:14
fraction 227:6
frame 73:17, 75:22, 77:1,
169:4, 170:25, 189:10,
197:14, 202:25
frankly 75:23, 206:24, 227:9
fraud 14:17, 215:19, 221:7,
222:8, 224:18, 224:23,
225:15, 230:5
fraudulent 61:22, 226:20
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 253
USCA5 5232
fraudulently 226:2
free 17:10, 17:11, 17:13,
21:11, 56:13, 75:1, 79:20,
215:22
freely 28:16
Friday 172:1
Friedman 194:23, 234:8
front 9:7, 13:14, 50:17,
77:22, 89:25, 107:2, 145:21,
145:25, 146:16, 146:24,
150:23, 157:25, 162:1,
164:19, 174:14, 178:14,
202:6, 202:19, 202:21,
212:17, 221:19
frozen 214:9
frustrating 202:24
Frye 4:2, 4:3, 116:22, 142:17
full 49:3, 67:7, 67:24, 69:3,
69:4, 69:7, 69:11, 76:5,
101:7, 117:8, 141:3, 147:24,
153:7, 193:20, 237:2
fully 59:25, 98:10, 102:16,
113:14, 186:4, 218:20,
225:16
function 139:21, 168:4,
196:6, 196:20
functioned 139:20
fund 9:15, 10:15, 164:3,
174:11, 214:13
fundamental 27:4, 101:18,
193:15
funded 211:15
funds 5:14, 11:1, 101:3,
128:4, 128:6, 192:18, 192:20,
192:23, 205:4, 211:5, 211:14,
211:18, 211:19, 213:2,
213:10, 213:15, 215:1,
216:19, 218:15, 222:24,
223:1, 237:13, 237:16
FURGESON 1:21, 3:8
furtherance 217:5
future 96:22, 97:6, 97:9,
157:4, 175:25, 222:16
< G >
G. 3:2, 31:24
Gardere 1:44, 2:3, 9:8,
197:16
Garrett 194:8
Gary 2:16, 3:1, 3:2, 4:8,
29:22, 30:15, 31:20, 31:24,
109:25, 238:8
gave 16:18, 37:3, 59:7, 76:5,
122:1, 122:8, 133:16, 141:20,
159:6, 169:20, 202:14, 222:4,
233:2
GENE 3:1
general 32:7, 32:17, 60:21
Generally 108:25, 110:4,
134:14, 196:8, 196:9, 200:11
gentlemen 31:3, 96:20
geometrically 188:7
GERRIT 2:45
Gerritt 30:15, 48:2, 74:2,
78:5, 106:25, 107:4, 116:24,
142:13, 143:20, 183:7
gets 214:20, 215:20
getting 23:17, 61:14, 65:21,
68:12, 106:6, 106:23, 149:2,
171:10, 173:20, 188:11,
198:21, 203:11, 220:25,
221:2
Ginsberg 212:18
Give 19:3, 49:25, 67:11,
72:3, 96:17, 109:16, 109:18,
123:7, 132:4, 136:4, 136:5,
140:16, 142:7, 147:24,
167:22, 188:14, 214:12,
218:14, 222:11, 223:3,
224:14, 228:11, 235:7,
235:13, 235:14, 235:17,
236:9
given 167:13, 191:16,
208:23, 223:2, 225:4
gives 222:6
giving 213:18, 222:25
glad 23:21, 25:10, 228:15,
228:18, 229:6, 230:2
global 11:17
glue 196:18
glyon.attorney@gmail.com
3:6
goal 21:12, 99:24, 216:17
Golden 1:43, 4:5, 4:15, 6:3,
16:4, 105:8, 110:7, 113:9,
114:6, 138:9, 229:21, 238:24
Golden138 238:24
Gordon 26:20
gotten 63:4, 80:7, 139:2,
140:24
grant 50:1
granted 78:7
granting 63:12
gratitude 225:8
Great 4:20, 6:24, 210:16,
220:18
greatly 174:9
grievances 88:14
Griffin 27:8, 204:17, 235:15
ground 223:11
grounds 39:7, 172:19, 183:3
growing 69:6, 187:20
guess 78:23, 120:17, 134:1,
149:3, 170:2, 210:20, 211:21,
212:12, 227:2
guidance 19:3, 228:11
guys 86:24
< H >
half 20:20, 21:21, 106:3,
146:16, 146:20, 165:2, 165:3,
166:18, 213:5, 215:2
Hall 194:11
hand 6:23, 116:21, 116:22
handed 27:9
handle 54:13, 75:1, 209:11,
225:1, 227:10
handled 49:16, 107:5
Handling 32:17
hands 197:4, 201:14
happen 22:4, 74:5, 81:22,
127:5, 141:9, 155:7, 220:2,
222:12
happened 20:15, 80:11,
80:12, 105:23, 174:24,
179:25, 189:19, 216:22,
229:10
happening 14:11, 14:17,
174:24
happens 165:4
Happy 7:7, 40:10, 40:11,
40:12, 202:12, 203:14
Harbin 5:17, 102:24, 103:2,
103:3, 113:11
hard 153:21, 208:13, 211:8,
214:21
HARDT 2:30
HARR 2:30
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 254
USCA5 5233
Hart 42:21, 43:7, 44:23,
47:10, 50:19, 50:22, 76:2,
199:21
hats 103:21, 105:1
havoc 237:17
head 42:3, 178:12, 227:22
Hear 16:2, 29:3, 126:3,
160:12, 160:14, 167:18,
203:14, 206:12, 208:11,
209:12, 210:23, 228:15,
228:18, 229:6, 229:10, 230:4
heard 78:24, 80:3, 80:10,
80:15, 146:6, 146:8, 147:14,
149:13, 160:10, 160:15,
167:7, 178:12, 186:20,
187:14, 194:9, 194:22, 195:6,
208:7, 212:4, 218:21, 218:24,
219:21, 220:16, 223:6,
224:15, 224:17, 229:1, 229:5,
229:16
hearings 13:23, 40:8, 90:1,
90:10, 90:13, 136:20, 219:6
Hearsay 54:22, 98:19, 123:3,
123:6, 123:18, 172:19, 183:3
Heart 123:12, 133:20, 206:10
heavy 44:16
held 19:25, 26:21, 28:5,
57:7, 57:8, 146:21, 146:23,
199:20, 205:10
help 7:23, 56:11, 79:23,
84:15, 92:19, 101:1, 113:12,
115:5, 119:19, 134:9, 158:25,
196:15, 211:22, 216:24,
228:11
helped 158:19, 161:25,
220:23
helpful 133:9, 135:6, 150:19,
161:22, 197:21
helping 83:23
hide 156:17
hiding 161:15
high 94:9
higher 152:12, 191:18
hint 132:5
hire 10:17, 93:7, 93:23,
98:13, 215:9, 216:1, 227:14,
234:12
hired 61:13, 64:24, 66:4,
69:13, 79:24, 92:12, 98:1,
126:4, 232:19, 232:24
hires 61:13, 215:20
hiring 24:6, 28:14, 28:16,
28:17, 92:22, 95:22, 216:3,
226:1
history 24:6, 223:5
hit 77:4, 113:25, 206:23
Hoffman 212:17
hold 46:23, 46:24
holding 23:14, 221:18
Holman 169:10
home 227:20
hone 206:25
honest 227:10
Honorable 1:21, 157:25,
228:10
hope 29:9, 237:11
Hopefully 101:24, 219:25
hospitalized 137:25
host 29:18, 176:15
hosting 196:14, 197:15
hot 44:16
hour 67:24, 68:25, 69:18,
69:19, 71:7, 71:25, 72:24,
75:2, 75:18, 76:1, 76:4,
100:10, 100:15, 112:6, 112:8,
146:16, 146:20
hourly 68:24, 75:24, 145:20
Hours 19:2, 19:3, 67:24,
69:1, 72:24, 73:7, 75:9,
75:17, 76:20, 77:15, 102:1,
120:10, 121:18, 186:4,
207:22, 229:2, 236:10
housekeeping 17:15
Houston 3:11
Howard 117:10
huge 56:23
humanly 211:6
hundred 67:23, 68:25, 69:17,
69:19, 71:6, 71:24, 72:24,
73:7, 75:17, 75:18, 75:25,
76:3, 77:4, 100:9, 100:15,
106:3, 119:4, 152:5, 152:6,
152:12, 153:1, 153:25,
160:20, 164:1, 174:12,
191:15, 193:3, 219:5, 219:14
hundred-and-whatever-pag
e 166:14
hundreds 222:5, 222:10
Hunt 2:28, 7:2, 7:5
hurry 31:8
hurt 190:10
hyperpotassemia 133:23
hypertension 133:21
< I >
idea 54:25, 59:13, 97:22,
208:11
ideations 138:22
identification 157:20
identify 93:10, 193:24
identifying 81:5
ignore 24:16
ignored 208:20
illegal 162:3, 162:8, 167:4,
176:5, 176:7, 176:11, 176:13,
177:20, 177:22
illegality 176:16
immediate 66:25
immediately 28:11, 174:20,
186:13, 187:14, 190:2
impact 83:15, 123:25
impasse 189:23
implement 13:7
implications 210:16
important 196:17, 210:1,
210:2
imposition 27:20
impossible 124:18
improper 27:18, 62:11,
62:18, 137:16, 162:8, 180:25,
181:2, 188:4, 228:4
impulses 126:17
in-house 14:12, 102:25
in. 25:2, 106:21, 142:17,
166:10
inaccurate 183:6
inapplicable 15:25
incarcerate 217:19
incarcerating 207:15
incentive 226:5
include 113:7, 188:22
included 166:11, 199:14,
199:18
including 5:4, 24:9, 58:1,
80:20, 159:12, 169:10, 174:9,
186:1, 213:21, 221:9, 222:1
incompetence 88:10
incorporate 74:21
incorporated 74:20
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 255
USCA5 5234
increase 139:15, 141:17,
234:3
increased 188:7
increasing 220:7, 220:13
incredibly 211:8
incur 69:2, 95:10
incurred 72:14, 72:15, 95:9,
95:14, 191:21
independent 215:6, 236:19
INDEX 139:22, 238:2
indicate 44:3, 168:25, 173:2
indicated 30:1, 44:22, 61:20,
80:5, 89:1, 96:11, 106:2,
106:4, 106:20, 136:8, 136:13,
136:15, 199:1
indicates 44:4, 50:21, 52:7,
52:11, 129:10, 137:11, 152:2
indicating 139:23, 189:12
indication 96:22, 136:4,
136:5
indications 136:9, 138:15
indirectly 51:9
individual 26:1, 93:5, 99:11,
99:12
individually 41:5, 64:21,
64:22, 144:4
individuals 41:16
industry 184:1
inference 231:23, 236:15,
236:17
inflammatory 154:17,
154:18
inform 73:10, 102:14, 174:2
information 7:19, 31:14,
43:12, 43:14, 45:24, 46:13,
46:16, 47:3, 49:1, 49:2,
50:12, 60:17, 124:8, 141:18,
141:20, 142:24, 146:19,
173:22
informed 69:1, 69:5, 72:13,
106:24
inherent 135:1
initial 55:4, 67:9, 70:9,
145:15, 145:22
initially 224:10
initio 27:22
injunction 25:2, 234:20,
234:24
injunctions 218:1
injury 119:23
ink 122:2, 122:10
input 89:5, 89:6
inquired 102:16
inside 178:12
insolvency 65:9
insomnia 133:20
instance 143:1, 208:19
instead 24:11, 27:3, 147:6,
148:8
institutional 126:16
institutionalized 127:12,
140:1
instructed 232:5
instructions 115:12, 141:5
instrumental 221:1
instruments 122:7
insurance 134:20, 134:22,
134:25, 140:23, 141:2, 142:4
intact 143:9
intelligent 174:1
intend 61:18, 100:19, 200:6
intended 61:8, 100:16,
176:8, 178:2, 187:8, 200:2,
222:9, 233:24
intending 7:16, 19:13
intends 17:4, 19:10, 19:12,
156:17
intense 185:22
intensified 186:23
intent 226:21, 228:10,
232:25
intention 163:17, 174:1,
188:13, 207:5, 208:8, 209:1
intentional 228:20
interest 25:23, 81:21,
103:21, 104:13, 105:1,
180:20, 184:3, 201:5, 201:11,
215:13, 224:5, 227:12,
228:15, 228:17
interested 19:9, 106:5,
106:23, 133:11
interesting 174:17, 190:18
interests 163:24, 181:15
interfere 88:19, 215:9
interference 218:7, 219:8
Interim 47:8, 47:9, 47:15,
49:4, 50:18
Internal 159:17, 219:23
interplay 84:6
interview 74:13, 82:15,
82:17, 92:11, 95:24, 96:9,
97:3, 121:25
interviewed 62:3, 96:4
interviewing 95:23
interviews 120:5
intimately 198:2
introduced 96:19
invaded 63:25
Inventory 122:2, 122:3,
122:4
invited 72:15
invocation 236:13, 236:15,
236:18
invoice 150:14, 151:6, 151:8,
152:2
invoices 46:21, 147:3, 148:4,
148:9, 152:25
invoke 29:22, 30:12, 231:22,
232:7
invoked 25:23
invoking 30:14
involve 174:11, 214:9
involved 9:19, 32:21, 33:2,
45:25, 56:20, 65:17, 66:1,
77:19, 80:5, 81:24, 88:10,
89:18, 93:17, 126:3, 129:11,
129:16, 131:25, 163:1, 163:6,
166:7, 166:10, 169:12,
181:14, 194:12, 194:13,
194:15, 194:19
involves 205:20
involving 15:14, 64:5, 125:4,
192:1
IRA 213:25, 214:10, 214:21
irrational 185:6, 185:10
irreparable 119:23, 124:4
Irrespective 81:25
Island 58:5, 87:13, 91:8,
231:11
Islands 86:22, 87:1, 87:3,
87:7, 87:10, 87:16, 87:17,
157:14, 158:20, 161:6, 161:8,
161:15, 162:17, 163:10,
163:11, 164:7, 168:2, 169:2,
169:18, 170:23, 171:12,
174:20, 175:1, 175:16,
177:16, 184:18, 223:1
issue 10:20, 11:8, 12:19,
47:22, 114:5, 119:20, 143:10,
146:3, 147:21, 154:12,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 256
USCA5 5235
166:15, 166:16, 166:17,
175:1, 175:2, 175:3, 187:3,
187:4, 187:10, 189:22,
199:13, 199:18, 200:8,
201:23, 206:11, 206:13,
206:24, 208:1, 208:3, 210:25,
214:11, 215:4, 219:9, 219:10,
227:2
issued 13:25, 14:8, 28:12,
28:21, 28:22, 129:20
issues 4:18, 40:5, 119:25,
144:15, 146:15, 166:13,
169:23, 189:17, 190:4,
203:23, 206:25, 207:3
itself 44:23, 45:4, 45:7,
124:20, 125:16, 126:10,
160:18, 170:15, 191:2
< J >
J. 2:26
Jackson 4:13, 4:16, 4:19
jail 26:5, 137:5, 159:8
Jamboree 34:2
James 6:5
January 154:7, 197:13
Jeffrey 1:12, 2:9, 4:4, 4:9,
32:5, 50:17, 55:19, 64:20,
109:10, 123:11, 232:13,
238:27
jeopardized 101:12
jmacpete@lockelord.com
1:35
job 19:7, 19:9, 19:11, 211:6,
225:6
job. 93:13
John 1:30, 7:8, 175:25,
195:11
joined 171:11
joining 161:16
joint 5:16, 113:19, 184:14
jokingly 82:21
Jones 194:25
Joseph 4:14
Joshua 4:24, 6:2
Joyce 107:1, 179:19, 202:14
judgment 29:1, 95:17,
200:15
judgments 75:6
Judicial 9:17, 10:2, 10:7,
10:9, 43:24, 45:9, 82:25,
83:8, 216:20, 217:15, 218:1,
239:10
July 65:1, 150:3, 164:16,
164:17, 186:12
June 59:2
Junior 117:10
jurisdiction 15:21, 15:23,
26:2, 26:5, 26:8, 27:6, 27:13,
27:17, 27:19, 29:16, 157:6,
162:5, 163:15, 163:17,
163:25, 165:8, 169:25,
170:17, 174:22, 175:5,
175:15, 175:17, 175:23,
176:2, 176:9, 176:20, 177:8,
201:3, 201:8, 221:20, 235:23
jurisdictional 169:23
jurisdictions 159:4, 159:14,
159:15
< K >
Keep 19:5, 24:23, 192:24,
213:21, 215:4, 223:9, 228:23
keeping 217:13
keeps 12:15
kept 14:9, 46:24, 202:23,
227:17
Kevin 7:20, 7:22
keys 222:11
kicking 220:20
kind 20:9, 51:20, 65:8, 67:5,
82:21, 126:16, 134:5, 146:9,
148:14, 186:24, 236:11
kinds 128:20, 224:25
Kingwood 64:15
knock 213:3
knowledge 33:18, 33:20,
42:8, 58:17, 58:19, 58:22,
109:5, 109:7, 124:24, 162:16,
183:4
known 34:6, 176:17, 212:7,
224:22
knows 120:18, 219:11,
220:15, 236:14
KOPF 2:30
Krishan 184:3
< L >
L. 3:14, 239:3, 239:14,
239:16
label 134:12
laboratory 118:11
Lack 45:23, 58:16, 109:4,
145:5, 163:12
lacks 28:9
laid 105:5, 124:7
language 85:23, 89:14
large 16:10, 94:17, 187:4
larger 69:6, 149:2
Last 4:17, 5:13, 11:9, 12:5,
12:19, 15:20, 16:18, 17:10,
17:12, 19:22, 29:8, 30:10,
34:6, 38:19, 60:4, 60:17,
102:11, 103:14, 108:15,
115:6, 120:19, 122:6, 123:3,
125:21, 128:16, 131:24,
132:13, 132:14, 132:16,
164:13, 167:19, 195:7,
210:20, 215:6, 218:5, 224:15,
236:12
Lastly 62:5
late 15:4, 60:18, 64:25, 65:1,
79:11, 81:15
later 67:13, 77:7, 108:17,
131:10, 157:9, 161:24, 162:1,
205:7, 207:25, 224:11
Law 1:38, 2:10, 2:17, 2:40,
2:46, 3:2, 3:9, 14:19, 14:21,
25:19, 25:25, 28:19, 28:23,
29:2, 49:7, 64:13, 74:11,
97:11, 102:22, 144:3, 153:23,
154:2, 169:11, 194:23,
208:18, 208:24, 233:13,
233:16, 233:19
lawful 217:25
Lawn 2:11, 163:7, 170:12
lawsuit 13:15, 146:17, 157:8,
200:12
lawsuits 9:18, 9:19, 10:7,
13:6, 21:3, 126:4, 192:1,
222:18
lawyers. 188:4
Lay 103:23, 103:24, 104:4,
104:5, 105:10, 109:6, 110:12,
110:13, 124:11, 125:24
layer 14:14
lead 132:4
leading 50:9
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 257
USCA5 5236
learn 164:4, 165:5, 165:23
learned 78:22, 79:2, 97:25,
98:3, 98:11, 154:21, 156:17,
164:6, 166:17, 166:21, 170:9,
173:21, 177:15
least 41:1, 49:20, 49:23,
49:25, 58:14, 67:24, 76:24,
108:20, 181:25, 188:14,
196:22, 212:23, 217:20
leave 78:6, 148:11
leaving 152:9
lectured 136:21
led 130:1, 157:13, 184:24,
186:21
Lee 27:8, 204:18, 235:15
left 73:25, 97:7, 113:13,
148:13, 183:17, 201:14
legal 13:19, 14:25, 17:13,
21:15, 23:4, 24:2, 24:24,
32:17, 36:4, 52:15, 52:18,
52:20, 53:16, 54:11, 75:1,
75:8, 95:9, 95:13, 104:16,
129:12, 130:1, 159:13,
174:25, 175:1, 175:2, 192:24,
205:14, 206:1, 206:13
legal@schepps.net 2:21
legally 93:4, 205:15
legitimate 220:22
length 90:1
less 60:9, 69:3, 152:6,
183:12, 193:20, 197:11,
208:5, 219:5
lesser 60:8
letter 9:11, 70:6, 236:9
letters 218:14
letting 151:25
level 77:18, 94:9, 94:24,
140:13, 141:21
liabilities 170:16
licensed 77:10
LIDDELL 1:31
lied 39:3
life 98:6, 226:25, 227:9
lifted 129:1
light 41:14, 44:9, 49:19,
52:13, 60:17
likelihood 49:17
limine 48:19
limit 29:6
limitation 144:13
Limited 12:4, 24:25, 25:5,
33:1, 43:10, 44:3, 46:1, 47:1,
50:17, 51:1, 51:7, 57:19,
108:22, 196:23, 199:7,
231:15
limiting 21:4
limits 19:1
Lincoln 2:31
Lindauer 107:1, 179:20,
179:21, 202:14
line 20:17, 97:15, 97:18,
229:14
lines 181:7, 190:10, 191:11
lining 96:15, 97:6
list 8:8, 17:6, 106:21, 109:17,
109:18, 132:24, 133:4,
188:17, 192:9, 192:17,
193:25, 203:11
listed 188:19
listen 88:22, 89:6
literally 89:4
literature 118:20
litigant 95:5, 114:17, 129:17,
221:6
litigants 175:24
litigate 190:8, 194:19
litigation 13:5, 13:10, 24:10,
74:3, 74:6, 95:8, 97:7,
120:19, 120:24, 131:25,
183:23, 184:9, 194:20, 209:1,
215:14, 217:17, 219:19,
220:25, 234:4
litigations 227:9
litigators 97:4
little 44:20, 61:15, 70:16,
78:24, 95:22, 98:15, 100:2,
105:14, 118:9, 153:10,
153:12, 189:15
live 64:14, 225:21
lives 221:10, 221:13
living 102:7, 117:12
LLC 5:8, 6:18, 11:3, 32:14,
90:25, 92:12, 92:22, 93:2,
93:7, 93:8, 93:24, 103:4,
113:19, 113:20
LLP 1:31
local 66:19
locate 93:23, 99:8
located 87:2, 133:12,
213:16, 214:7, 214:24, 215:1
locating 93:17, 94:6
LOCKE 1:31
lodge 48:4
long 20:17, 37:17, 37:24,
39:12, 40:14, 66:6, 77:8,
90:2, 98:14, 104:9, 110:15,
112:3, 120:1, 120:6, 121:18,
128:23, 132:18, 141:22,
143:24, 184:12, 184:22,
207:21, 211:11, 212:14,
212:16, 223:5
longer 79:3, 90:14, 92:15,
215:22
longest 12:12
look 6:12, 23:21, 45:13,
63:1, 79:21, 83:12, 106:10,
133:8, 150:8, 151:25, 155:1,
155:15, 166:14, 182:11,
188:16, 191:8, 205:23,
205:24, 206:4, 206:7, 235:5
looked 124:8, 163:2, 163:11,
212:16
looking 10:24, 88:17, 88:18,
134:1, 162:21, 162:22, 163:4,
167:12, 182:22, 193:9
LORD 1:31
lose 181:4
lost 149:16, 161:13, 161:19,
173:4, 173:8
lot 29:8, 40:6, 44:12, 49:4,
52:20, 52:22, 73:21, 73:25,
74:3, 77:20, 85:19, 94:19,
101:7, 129:14, 165:20,
181:10, 185:8, 186:20,
187:16, 189:24, 190:25,
209:5, 213:1, 218:16
lots 9:6, 21:2
Lou 194:22
loud 25:5
low 133:23
lower 140:13
luck 81:5
lumped 183:21
lunch 101:23
Lurich 194:23, 233:18
< M >
M. 1:43
Macpete112 238:19
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 258
USCA5 5237
Macpete135 238:23
Macpete141 238:25
Macpete198 238:26
Macpete232 238:28
Macpete57 238:12
Macpete90 238:15
mad 153:10, 153:12
maddening 219:5
magnitude 52:14
maintain 225:20
major 122:14, 133:5
majority 191:5
malfeasance 88:10
man 126:23
manage 29:8, 42:11, 74:19,
182:18, 216:1
managed 86:13
management 9:15, 10:15
manager 5:17, 34:6, 41:15,
103:3
Manilla 225:14
manner 182:22, 185:15
Manual 130:16, 134:8
map 222:16
March 171:4, 185:21
Mark 43:19, 45:7, 46:2, 80:5,
80:6, 80:11, 107:8, 107:10,
157:21, 194:17, 233:15
marked 50:21, 151:2,
168:19, 182:2
market 214:5, 214:10
markets 213:22
Marsh 133:13
Martin 14:7, 43:6, 62:4,
133:10, 169:17, 202:4,
212:20, 233:9
Master 13:22, 14:25, 18:1,
18:5, 103:16, 105:1, 117:19,
118:2, 196:7, 196:10, 196:23,
197:7
matter 8:18, 12:9, 15:20,
16:1, 19:17, 20:1, 20:3,
20:22, 25:19, 25:25, 27:6,
27:11, 27:13, 27:17, 28:19,
28:23, 29:2, 55:5, 65:21,
67:20, 126:17, 126:21,
180:18, 180:22, 187:3,
189:22, 199:6, 201:12,
201:13, 206:11, 207:12,
207:25, 209:18, 209:23,
211:10, 217:21, 235:17,
236:5, 237:12
matters 10:14, 11:12, 11:16,
16:18, 16:20, 17:16, 18:14,
29:18, 49:16, 49:23, 54:13,
54:19, 63:25, 64:4, 102:16,
131:7, 142:4, 144:11, 144:15,
180:24, 183:13, 192:9, 199:9,
200:14, 217:2, 225:1
MD 122:24
me. 229:12
mean 16:16, 19:19, 38:21,
55:6, 55:7, 69:7, 88:8, 101:3,
115:18, 134:5, 179:5, 185:10,
207:2, 207:13, 214:2, 229:3
means 19:20, 27:4, 27:22,
28:10, 104:15, 200:19
meant 86:12, 87:11, 176:14
meantime 208:12
mechanism 177:12, 177:13
mechanism. 177:19
mediate 81:2, 105:16,
105:21, 179:18, 179:19,
202:6, 202:7, 234:16
mediated 201:24, 203:23
mediation 14:19, 24:3, 33:5,
33:8, 40:8, 73:6, 80:19,
80:21, 80:24, 81:5, 81:23,
100:22, 106:4, 106:24,
106:25, 107:1, 108:7, 108:19,
109:9, 179:10, 179:24,
179:25, 201:23, 202:3,
202:10, 202:11, 202:19,
202:21, 203:3, 203:7, 203:16,
204:6, 216:5, 222:19
mediations 107:3, 212:15
mediator 15:1, 103:18,
105:2, 105:15, 108:16,
179:15
mediators 107:6, 179:17,
202:11
Medical 122:23, 123:4,
123:6, 123:16, 132:7, 132:10,
132:18, 132:22, 133:7,
133:13, 138:6
medication 237:10
medications 132:24, 133:2
meetings 96:24
mental 119:22, 121:4,
121:13, 127:16, 127:18,
135:10
mention 8:16, 24:8, 102:8,
190:18, 196:2
mentioned 94:9, 186:1,
193:21, 215:3
mentioning 146:7
mercy 12:24
merit 79:16
merry-go-round 228:6
messages 187:8
met 96:20, 96:21, 99:24
method 208:6
Methodist 117:13
Michael 2:9, 194:4
middle 148:10
million 109:3, 109:12, 137:4,
193:2, 194:8, 211:24, 212:1,
212:4, 212:8, 212:9, 212:23,
213:5, 213:20, 214:24,
218:16
millions 191:19, 209:15
Mills 133:14
mind 7:20, 24:23, 35:10,
38:10, 48:24, 69:24, 77:7,
81:7, 151:24, 175:12, 213:21,
215:4, 228:4, 228:15, 237:4,
237:6
Minnesota 122:1, 122:9
minute 5:2, 55:8, 147:2,
156:21, 159:25, 209:12,
223:18
minutes 35:8, 76:22, 77:3,
116:12, 121:20, 137:18,
167:16, 167:22, 178:21,
180:10, 181:22, 198:15,
204:14, 229:3
mischaracterizing 166:25
misled 24:17
misrepresented 180:17
missed 20:15, 40:23, 160:6,
160:10
misspoke 204:23
misunderstood 71:20
mixed 175:6
MMPI 135:22, 136:8
MMSK 183:19, 184:1, 184:2
modification 49:24
modus 82:5
moment 58:12, 115:24,
210:23
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 259
USCA5 5238
Monday 80:4, 80:9
monetary 125:15
monies 6:17, 192:21
Month 41:25, 70:17, 76:22,
81:17, 95:24, 96:1, 96:6,
100:4, 132:16, 152:14,
152:19, 165:2, 165:3, 166:18,
179:21, 186:3, 202:23
monthly 70:2, 70:5, 71:25,
148:4, 148:9
months 27:9, 137:5, 137:6,
153:25, 160:24, 164:10,
164:25, 165:12, 209:14,
212:25, 219:2
morning 4:5, 4:8, 4:11, 7:7,
8:2, 8:24, 15:2, 17:18, 17:22,
18:3, 18:12, 18:14, 179:23,
235:20
motions 6:8, 10:15, 10:19,
10:23, 10:24, 11:19, 15:7,
18:20, 48:19, 212:5, 212:14
motivated 188:3
Motley 110:2
mouth 94:23, 208:8
Movant 16:5, 151:2, 157:21,
168:19, 226:1, 238:32
move 28:19, 105:11, 105:12,
107:25, 110:25, 125:1,
125:21, 149:18, 151:17,
156:19, 157:2, 159:3, 165:8,
173:20, 174:19, 176:22
moved 86:24, 163:23,
169:21, 170:10, 174:16
moving 74:8, 80:11, 155:4,
157:5, 159:15, 162:4, 169:5,
170:14, 175:7, 175:12,
175:14, 175:19
MR. GOLDEN 4:5, 4:15,
4:23, 5:1, 5:3, 5:16, 6:4, 6:14,
6:22, 16:4, 103:22, 105:4,
108:3, 114:7, 116:18, 121:2,
123:2, 123:14, 124:22,
140:15, 151:20, 213:9, 214:3,
214:17, 214:20, 218:2,
218:12
MR. ROOSSIEN 117:2,
124:6, 125:1, 125:19, 129:7,
129:9, 135:5, 135:7, 135:16,
181:20, 181:23, 182:1, 182:5,
182:11, 182:14, 183:1,
183:14, 184:16, 191:7,
191:24, 192:3, 193:7, 195:4,
198:13, 205:24, 230:17,
230:23, 231:2, 231:4, 231:15,
235:9, 235:19
MR. SCHEPPS 4:8, 4:12,
6:7, 6:11, 8:3, 8:7, 8:11, 8:13,
8:23, 9:2, 10:6, 10:13, 11:7,
11:13, 15:16, 15:19, 17:12,
17:15, 17:18, 17:25, 18:6,
18:10, 18:21, 18:23, 19:11,
25:16, 25:18, 25:22, 26:6,
26:10, 26:17, 213:3
MR. URBANIK 192:13,
192:20, 212:13, 213:7,
221:24, 225:13
Ms 59:4, 59:8, 59:9, 91:4,
91:7, 91:17, 92:15, 168:17,
168:25, 170:3, 170:5, 171:8,
172:20, 179:21, 233:22
multi-year 212:16
multifarious 147:11, 147:14
Multiphasic 122:2, 122:10
Multiple 126:3, 126:4
multiplying 72:23, 73:7
Munish 184:3
Munsch 2:30, 42:21, 43:7,
44:22, 47:10, 50:18, 50:22,
76:2, 199:21
myself 7:25, 63:15, 79:7,
199:18, 217:17, 226:3
< N >
N. 2:16, 2:32
naivete 187:18
Name 7:10, 31:23, 64:9,
103:7, 103:12, 109:16, 117:8,
133:7, 143:18, 162:17, 163:8,
163:10, 169:20, 170:11,
170:13, 182:19, 194:9,
214:22, 224:3, 224:8, 232:16,
234:21, 238:6
Namely 107:4, 137:17
names 40:16, 140:17, 184:1,
193:25, 202:14
narrow 10:20, 11:8, 24:24
natural 198:9, 198:11
naturally 235:24, 236:3
nature 40:2, 43:11, 101:18
nausea 133:22
necessarily 43:11, 126:19,
194:24, 215:5
necessary 45:25, 48:7, 50:7,
86:1, 119:18, 128:6, 193:1,
225:12
necessity 28:2, 45:15
need 6:16, 19:6, 24:12,
36:15, 44:13, 56:6, 109:14,
110:12, 110:15, 112:22,
116:1, 119:10, 124:11,
126:15, 128:4, 137:20,
156:19, 166:19, 167:15,
181:21, 192:11, 209:12,
211:19, 213:16, 216:13,
217:5, 220:3, 221:8, 231:13,
231:21
needed 4:18, 9:3, 30:9,
32:18, 41:21, 47:3, 49:24,
65:6, 72:10, 80:8, 81:20,
82:20, 155:3, 155:5, 166:12,
169:12, 169:19, 181:4
needs 7:18, 126:20, 127:12,
220:2, 235:6
negative 236:17
negotiate 158:20, 159:21,
179:1, 209:14
negotiated 33:24, 87:22,
145:16, 145:17, 186:17
negotiating 75:20, 158:25,
182:21, 198:23
negotiation 145:18, 181:13,
181:16, 186:18, 190:1, 194:6,
194:12, 194:14, 194:15,
194:21, 207:22, 222:11,
223:18
negotiations 186:5, 189:24,
197:21, 203:8
neighborhood 150:7
neither 16:5, 217:17
Nelson 194:4
Netsphere 1:6, 4:3, 7:9,
41:16, 54:13, 58:25, 59:5,
64:17, 84:8, 84:18, 84:19,
91:14, 91:18, 91:22, 92:1,
95:8, 225:14
Nevada 117:20
Nevermind 214:3
New 7:8, 12:21, 14:11, 14:15,
15:21, 60:6, 78:23, 86:6,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 260
USCA5 5239
86:8, 86:13, 86:16, 89:21,
98:24, 161:9, 169:24, 170:8,
170:11, 170:18, 170:23,
175:16, 177:12, 185:1, 187:6,
222:6, 222:17, 237:16
Newport 1:40
newspapers 118:21
Next 63:6, 85:11, 108:12,
113:12, 116:23, 142:12,
172:9, 186:7, 218:11, 220:2
nice 29:7
night 55:10, 65:2, 75:2,
76:20, 199:22, 227:20
nine 17:4, 101:25, 179:23
nineteen 13:19, 77:4
ninety-five 69:10, 72:5,
73:11
No. 36:9, 39:3, 60:1, 66:5,
66:21, 74:21, 87:15, 104:3,
111:19, 130:25, 134:11,
148:24, 171:24, 179:5,
204:19
Nobody 10:18, 202:24,
220:15
non 159:25
noncompliance 202:3
None 24:16, 28:2, 73:24,
144:24, 216:7, 216:22,
219:25
nonpayment 188:4
Nonresponsive 147:16
nor 27:7, 48:18, 113:15
norm 75:24
normal 77:5, 136:16, 145:20,
153:19, 153:23
Normally 8:20, 20:8, 31:10,
76:21, 79:11, 228:16
North 1:39, 117:19
NORTHERN 1:2, 76:2,
239:18
Nothing 21:9, 24:4, 35:24,
61:15, 100:20, 114:4, 120:18,
138:8, 155:17, 160:7, 160:13,
167:3, 175:7, 198:13, 214:4,
215:14, 227:16, 229:7, 235:1
notice 9:17, 9:18, 10:2, 10:7,
10:9, 17:18, 17:19, 17:25,
18:3, 43:24, 45:9, 62:17,
62:21, 82:25, 83:8, 180:2,
188:1, 222:25, 223:3
notify 115:2, 127:4, 127:5
November 37:6, 106:23,
113:7, 213:12
Novo 4:14, 4:25, 5:8, 5:14,
5:18, 5:21, 5:22, 5:25, 74:8,
74:9, 74:12, 74:15, 74:19,
90:25, 92:12, 92:14, 92:18,
92:22, 93:2, 93:7, 93:24,
96:19, 97:2, 103:1, 103:4,
113:8, 113:20, 113:22, 227:7
now. 15:5
NUMBER 1:6, 24:7, 28:15,
40:1, 40:12, 43:22, 43:23,
57:25, 59:21, 62:2, 72:21,
72:23, 72:25, 73:7, 74:24,
86:2, 88:12, 98:4, 98:8,
108:22, 151:3, 151:18,
157:21, 182:3, 187:7, 193:21,
214:7, 214:10, 215:2, 219:21,
227:6, 239:20
Numbered 83:2
Numerous 64:16, 165:9,
169:9, 187:13, 188:9, 198:22,
198:25, 201:19, 202:6
< O >
o'clock 55:10, 79:8, 115:9,
167:13, 179:23, 235:7
Oak 2:11, 163:7, 170:12
Oberlin 118:8
obey 137:3
Object 6:7, 10:6, 10:8, 39:5,
109:4, 119:10, 119:12, 123:2,
123:15, 124:6, 124:22,
125:21, 166:24, 172:19,
179:11, 183:2, 183:9, 199:5
objected 14:25, 43:9, 46:15,
192:17
objections 15:13, 47:24,
48:4, 49:18, 98:19
obligated 192:2
obligation 58:4, 58:11
obligations 57:15, 57:19,
58:1, 58:9, 58:14, 154:22,
189:8
observation 189:11
observed 93:7, 185:5
observing 185:17, 185:18
obstruction 23:4
obtain 84:7, 113:22
obtained 86:1
obtaining 59:5
obvious 227:22
Obviously 12:11, 29:14,
41:18, 62:15, 215:11, 215:25
occasion 26:21, 26:23,
104:18
Occasionally 118:15
occasions 79:2, 104:11,
187:7
occur 209:23
occurred 119:23, 138:5,
184:9, 198:23, 217:15,
217:16, 229:4
occurring 215:19, 220:6
occurs 122:20
October 15:3, 37:6, 37:22,
37:25, 81:17
odd 208:23
offer 30:8, 183:1, 191:24,
195:4
offered 81:19, 111:15
offering 172:23, 184:16
OFFFICE 2:40
Office 2:10, 3:2, 64:13,
113:12
officed 170:12
officer 127:3, 226:16
officers 218:1
OFFICES 2:17, 91:5, 197:16,
199:21, 206:17
official 239:4
offshore 87:8, 155:4, 156:17,
157:5, 157:14, 160:2, 161:16,
162:21, 165:8, 169:6, 173:21,
174:16, 175:8, 175:13
often 189:20
Ohio 118:9
old 170:16
Once 29:17, 46:25, 103:13,
106:13, 129:18, 186:20,
218:9, 221:16, 236:4
Ondova 32:14, 32:25, 33:1,
33:2, 47:11, 51:1, 51:2, 51:3,
51:7, 53:2, 53:16, 53:25,
54:12, 54:13, 54:14, 54:18,
54:25, 59:1, 83:16, 84:7,
84:10, 84:19, 84:21, 85:1,
191:3, 191:21, 192:1, 192:5,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 261
USCA5 5240
228:2
one. 61:23, 62:3, 62:4,
182:24, 219:21
ones 6:13, 90:13, 133:5,
192:15
ongoing 86:18, 93:9, 215:19,
221:7
open 39:4, 47:15, 143:10
opened 39:1, 39:17, 208:21
opening 25:16, 29:6
operandi 82:6
operate 182:18, 228:17
operated 165:25
operating 209:1, 209:6,
209:24, 224:3, 224:8
operation 183:25
opinion 21:23, 21:25, 22:2,
53:16, 54:11, 54:19, 54:25,
55:23, 56:5, 62:14, 91:20,
100:12, 100:17, 100:18,
103:20, 103:23, 103:25,
104:2, 104:3, 104:24, 110:5,
114:18, 135:12, 139:5, 159:4,
195:13, 195:22, 198:1
opinions 131:7
opportunity 10:11, 18:12,
28:3, 49:25, 130:4, 147:23,
147:25
oppose 179:17, 202:9
opposed 6:19, 123:17,
134:21, 137:10, 146:14,
181:3
opposing 84:8, 190:19
opposite 175:10
oppressive 40:1
oral 63:12, 63:14
ordered 33:5, 33:7, 146:25,
157:10, 178:8, 234:8
ordering 209:25
orders 6:20, 9:5, 33:12,
34:16, 116:20, 129:20,
131:15, 137:4, 204:10,
207:14, 215:25, 216:2,
217:23, 227:12, 227:18,
227:25
Ordinarily 130:12
organizational 166:10,
182:16
original 12:22, 13:14, 60:15,
70:5, 87:7, 89:17, 101:17,
138:12, 139:13, 139:14,
184:13
originally 19:20, 25:1, 69:12,
70:8, 80:6
others 193:14
otherwise 84:4, 84:16,
94:20, 95:10, 95:13
ought 138:18
outside 31:12, 134:17,
165:8, 201:8
Outstanding 29:12, 152:3,
206:3
overall 36:16, 196:20
overbroad 205:13
overlap 90:12
overlook 82:25
overnight 130:10, 130:11
overreaching 44:17
overreaching. 55:6
overrule 131:8, 199:8
Overruled 39:6, 50:10,
61:25, 92:7, 98:20, 99:23
oversaw 87:8
overseeing 14:25
oversight 25:3, 25:6
overtime 187:12
owe 225:7
owed 111:10, 111:25, 200:16,
227:4
owing 187:11
own 11:2, 24:10, 44:15,
48:14, 148:14, 207:24, 208:7,
208:8, 210:16, 216:1, 217:7,
228:13, 228:14, 228:17
owned 94:7, 182:17, 234:22
owner 93:1
< P >
PACER 10:24
Pacific 2:47
Pacione 107:5
Pack 86:19, 86:21, 99:12,
99:15
Page 45:14, 188:2, 195:7,
195:8, 238:6, 238:32, 238:38
pages 160:20, 239:6
palpitations 133:20
paper 58:10, 183:8
papered 65:21
papers 16:11, 16:14, 16:19,
23:15, 65:24, 103:7, 221:17
parade 22:21, 22:22, 78:3,
217:25, 220:7
Paragraph 44:5, 44:22, 52:8,
55:4
paraphrasing 89:15
part 35:2, 45:10, 55:9, 55:12,
66:22, 76:14, 86:5, 87:23,
90:2, 125:21, 126:8, 155:11,
168:4, 185:6, 192:5, 194:20,
199:3, 221:8
participate 20:11, 24:3, 79:9,
80:18, 160:4
participated 70:8
participating 106:5
participation 93:15
particular 32:18, 40:6, 47:8,
47:18, 48:18, 48:22, 66:5,
73:15, 79:5, 133:17, 151:11,
164:7, 173:10, 214:12,
227:15, 236:7
particularly 185:21
parties 8:20, 13:7, 13:9,
13:11, 44:17, 44:18, 55:7,
55:8, 65:25, 77:19, 84:11,
94:19, 186:19, 196:14,
196:16, 198:10, 222:4, 222:7,
225:16, 226:23, 234:23
parting 65:5
partner 76:2
partners 7:2
partnerships 159:12, 159:13
parts 13:12
party 26:10, 26:11, 27:2,
30:18, 84:8, 84:12, 181:14,
204:10, 209:16
Pass 38:13, 129:5, 135:14,
135:16
passive 88:17, 99:24
past 99:19, 119:2, 216:23
Patel 78:11, 143:22
patience 29:19, 114:8
patiently 219:20
pattern 188:3, 188:9, 215:24
Paxil 133:5
paying 15:17, 61:15, 84:19,
187:16, 188:8, 188:11,
223:20, 224:9, 226:2, 226:21,
228:23
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 262
USCA5 5241
payment 56:18, 67:1, 67:5,
67:8, 67:14, 70:19, 98:15,
101:7, 113:15, 199:14,
224:15
payments 55:22, 67:13,
218:25, 222:2, 224:5
pays 193:20
PC 2:30, 143:22
pencil 6:16
pendency 120:13
pending 48:20, 53:20, 64:17,
64:25, 144:12, 223:9
people 56:10, 61:13, 74:13,
74:14, 91:5, 92:11, 208:13,
209:5, 223:17, 226:1, 227:20,
228:17
per 59:5, 68:25, 69:19,
72:24, 75:18, 136:1
percent 69:10, 69:13, 72:5,
73:11, 76:17, 154:1
Perfect 4:20, 17:1, 55:14
perform 61:9, 61:18, 90:24,
100:16, 121:24, 200:2, 233:1,
233:25
performed 55:5, 67:2,
122:24
performing 139:24, 192:15
perhaps 6:20, 103:17, 168:5,
188:3, 193:14
period 12:12, 22:3, 67:17,
67:21, 120:6, 148:14, 204:5,
212:16, 215:21, 224:6
permission 59:5
permitted 231:23
perpetuating 23:16
person 81:1, 93:22, 104:4,
162:18, 162:20, 198:1
personal 6:19, 10:25, 11:1,
26:2, 27:19, 32:11, 58:16,
58:19, 58:22, 109:5, 109:7,
134:25, 190:22, 213:19
Personality 122:2, 130:13,
130:14, 130:16, 130:18,
134:10, 134:22, 135:1,
135:25, 136:2, 136:7, 136:9,
136:13
Personally 25:8, 60:22,
61:21, 93:20, 93:22, 96:23,
109:10, 113:19, 144:5,
144:11, 201:1
persons 93:10
pestered 77:14
Peter 2:2, 2:9, 2:10, 4:6,
30:15, 103:11, 104:25,
105:15, 107:17, 107:18,
108:7, 108:13, 179:1, 234:17
peter@barrettcrimelaw.co
m 2:14
petition 111:6
Ph.d 185:16
Phone 1:34, 1:47, 2:6, 2:13,
2:20, 2:34, 2:49, 3:5, 3:12,
3:18, 7:8, 40:14, 66:20,
68:10, 77:2, 77:4, 103:13,
218:23, 229:2
phonetic 169:10
phonetic)i 194:22
phrased 6:15
physical 101:10
physically 5:25
physician 121:5, 123:8,
123:9, 132:8, 132:11
physics 117:18, 118:7,
118:12, 118:15
physiological 134:15
pick 122:10, 122:12, 149:7
picture 186:15, 189:23
piece 183:7
pieces 58:10
piped 48:12
place 27:15, 29:2, 29:17,
30:21, 53:3, 81:1, 81:8,
88:20, 91:25, 93:12, 93:14,
120:15, 121:7, 128:11,
129:22, 182:20
placed 30:19, 30:20, 53:12,
53:19, 122:24, 126:15
places 60:19
Plaintiff 1:7, 1:30
plan 76:21, 115:23, 121:18,
140:3, 218:12, 231:17
planning 49:13, 155:4,
213:13
platelet 133:22
playground 20:11
Plaza 2:31
plead 220:19
pleading 24:15, 24:17,
112:8, 146:7, 146:9, 146:10,
147:1
pleadings 9:24, 24:7, 83:1,
83:9
please 26:15, 31:18, 64:9,
102:6, 107:24, 142:15, 167:6
plenty 223:16
plus 13:19, 21:2, 51:15,
97:12, 97:13
PO 3:3
podium 158:3, 158:13,
158:16
Point. 4:14, 199:6, 226:8
pointed 29:13
pointing 11:9
points 45:14, 47:6, 48:9,
186:16, 225:24
Poker 224:16
policing 29:14
policy 153:16, 154:10
pool 220:13
popular 118:21
portion 73:8, 224:13
position 16:17, 20:21, 44:16,
56:12, 56:14, 78:8, 146:6,
179:18, 184:9, 184:14,
193:19, 196:10, 215:2,
223:15
positions 197:1
possession 26:13, 54:16
possibility 49:21
possible 61:14, 61:15, 97:9,
125:20, 125:24, 154:21,
155:11, 165:23, 175:24,
192:16, 206:8, 211:6, 226:6,
226:12
Possibly 96:21, 124:23,
162:3, 179:9, 194:4, 195:9
post-august 67:19, 68:14,
75:22, 100:16
post-hearing 231:6
potassium 133:23
potential 81:5
potentially 155:8, 173:20,
193:23, 194:1, 195:17
power 204:9
powers 136:22, 136:23
practical 220:22
practice 47:7, 49:7, 69:8,
76:24, 76:25, 104:19, 117:15,
144:25, 145:3, 153:23, 154:1
practiced 76:1, 97:11
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 263
USCA5 5242
practicing 77:8, 184:22
pre-bankruptcy 191:12
precipitately 139:2
precipitous 139:14, 141:17
predicate 69:23, 103:23,
103:24, 104:5, 105:5, 105:10,
124:7, 125:24, 131:6
preemptive 74:2, 74:5
preface 213:11
Preferably 61:15, 214:17
preliminary 25:1, 217:1,
234:20, 234:23
preparation 105:25, 106:2
prepare 18:13, 63:15
prepared 10:3, 20:7
preparing 20:20
prescribed 239:10
prescription 133:16
present 8:21, 16:21, 16:25,
18:7, 47:20, 48:8, 62:9, 76:8,
85:4, 90:10, 97:7, 103:6,
137:12, 191:20, 205:15,
231:6
presentation 9:6, 115:22,
168:12, 217:4
presented 10:12, 16:20,
29:3, 197:24, 235:20
presenting 231:10
Presently 32:1, 64:12,
143:21
press 118:21
pressure 185:12
Pretty 12:11, 52:17, 76:19,
89:11, 171:22, 182:23,
184:19, 185:22, 197:19,
225:10
prevalent 189:21
prevent 28:16, 146:18,
156:19, 157:3, 200:13,
217:14
preventing 157:8
Prevention 118:25
previous 41:15, 220:25
previously 30:1, 79:14,
84:25, 98:5, 124:15, 125:4,
125:22, 141:23
Primarily 52:14, 65:9, 85:17,
85:20, 196:13
primary 144:14, 145:18,
175:22
Prior 27:7, 38:20, 38:21,
38:22, 39:13, 47:23, 65:4,
65:12, 65:16, 69:17, 78:25,
114:2, 128:18, 132:23,
137:14, 137:24, 139:5, 145:6,
146:11, 146:22, 164:23,
171:9, 179:24, 191:21
prison 227:20
private 117:15
privilege 39:5, 39:8, 39:14,
39:17, 39:19, 63:21, 64:1,
68:5, 99:18, 99:22, 102:11,
102:15, 143:1, 143:3, 143:8,
143:14, 146:15, 155:23,
178:7, 230:13, 232:7
privilege. 232:12
privileges 39:12, 230:11
pro 113:12
Probability 185:24
Probably 13:3, 15:17, 42:2,
69:9, 87:17, 119:4, 127:3,
159:3, 164:20, 167:16,
177:14, 186:23, 187:18,
188:14, 198:4, 205:13,
209:14, 211:6, 211:23,
211:25, 219:6, 221:11
problem 21:17, 23:1, 23:3,
23:18, 27:5, 27:12, 41:11,
54:14, 86:16, 86:18, 88:4,
88:7, 88:8, 117:3, 126:1,
126:13, 126:14, 145:6,
147:22, 171:10, 187:9,
187:17, 188:12, 206:19,
210:14, 216:18, 220:11,
228:18, 228:22, 229:15
problems 40:15, 114:16,
122:11, 126:11, 139:23,
155:12, 159:16, 171:8,
176:15, 176:24, 177:22,
181:9, 181:10, 181:11,
187:15, 190:4, 190:25,
206:22
procedural 209:22
procedure 10:21, 203:25,
204:2
proceed 17:7, 20:23, 43:21,
116:17, 116:18
proceeding 6:8, 192:6,
200:8, 219:15, 220:1, 236:6
proceedings 10:8, 23:9,
170:22, 239:3, 239:5
proceeds 39:20
process 14:19, 21:15, 23:4,
27:21, 27:22, 28:9, 28:12,
28:22, 29:13, 88:5, 100:22,
106:7, 113:24, 130:1, 148:11,
153:8, 179:13, 179:14,
187:23, 189:16, 189:21,
196:17, 198:25, 199:4,
199:23, 215:9, 216:20,
217:15, 222:19
procured 224:18, 224:23,
225:15, 226:20
professional 49:17, 118:20,
140:6
professionals 5:4, 5:9, 5:21,
6:9
professor 117:14, 228:16,
237:6
proffer 20:2, 116:2, 119:6,
119:22
proffered 119:8
prolong 31:9
promise 61:17, 100:16,
233:1
promised 60:3, 100:14,
153:7, 154:3, 187:12, 232:25
promises 61:9, 61:19, 61:22,
200:3, 233:25
promising 60:25
prompt 235:18
promptly 67:23, 187:14,
237:12
proof 30:8
properly 170:24, 184:10
property 25:22, 26:12,
26:20, 26:22, 27:3
propose 5:19
propriety 9:14
Prospective 93:13, 94:8,
193:9
prostate 133:24
protect 126:16, 126:20,
127:8, 127:14, 163:24
protection 223:5, 223:6
protective 129:20
provide 148:4, 177:7, 236:10
provided 43:14, 43:16,
60:17, 81:13, 84:3, 106:9,
132:7
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 264
USCA5 5243
provides 177:9
providing 43:12, 84:20,
84:25
psychiatrist 185:7, 237:5
psycho-therapy 127:20
psychological 119:25,
122:11, 123:17, 129:21,
129:25, 130:5, 132:22, 134:2
psychologist 116:11, 121:6,
123:15, 140:7, 185:7, 209:4,
237:5
psychology 117:14, 117:15,
118:2, 118:3, 118:6, 118:8,
118:10, 118:14, 119:11,
119:19, 185:15, 185:16
psychotherapy 129:3
Published 118:18, 118:19
Puri 1:37, 7:8, 7:10, 7:12,
7:13
purpose 27:18, 54:5, 61:14,
62:11, 62:19, 96:14, 96:16,
119:12, 119:17, 121:7,
137:16, 144:14, 157:5,
162:25, 163:12, 175:19,
175:22, 184:17, 188:4, 204:9,
228:4, 228:14, 231:10
purposefully 234:6
purposely 234:2
purposes 5:5, 15:12, 15:13,
16:1, 21:7, 21:9, 23:21,
23:22, 25:11, 63:6, 63:16,
63:17, 157:20, 213:18, 231:9,
231:14, 231:16
purview 39:11
push 19:10
pushing 122:20
Put 16:11, 16:13, 16:23,
27:15, 31:10, 48:21, 48:22,
53:16, 53:25, 54:25, 94:23,
120:4, 121:6, 124:19, 131:14,
137:5, 155:7, 159:8, 164:1,
174:11, 175:3, 176:9, 177:24,
185:12, 193:14, 193:19,
208:3, 212:1, 227:19, 227:21,
228:2, 230:18
puts 193:16
pvogel@gardere.com 2:7
< Q >
qualifications 119:18, 198:7
qualified 104:21, 119:13,
176:12, 197:23
qualify 194:7, 194:24, 195:3,
195:14, 195:21
Quantec 4:14, 4:25, 5:8,
5:14, 5:18, 5:22, 5:25, 74:8,
74:9, 74:13, 74:15, 74:19,
90:25, 92:12, 92:14, 92:17,
92:22, 93:2, 93:7, 93:24,
103:1, 103:4, 113:8, 113:19,
113:22, 227:8
quantified 125:14
quantify 124:24, 128:17,
128:20, 128:23, 128:25,
213:4
quantifying 125:8, 125:10,
125:13
Quasar 74:15, 74:16, 74:18
questions 20:4, 20:22,
39:18, 57:10, 57:14, 63:20,
64:3, 110:23, 114:6, 129:6,
143:2, 143:6, 143:12, 147:14,
158:14, 181:19, 231:22
quibble 89:10
quick 76:13, 155:3, 155:6,
218:2
quicker 44:12, 213:2
quickly 12:11, 54:14, 65:17,
130:11, 181:8, 203:18, 223:7,
226:12
Quit 44:19, 49:7, 55:15,
169:12, 171:12, 177:10,
203:12, 212:19, 212:20
quite 128:22, 200:11
quitting 14:15
quote 89:16, 146:1
< R >
R-a-v-i 7:12
rachet 44:19
raise 146:15, 214:11
raised 114:6, 146:6
raising 190:4
Ralston 80:5, 80:11, 80:14
ramifications 74:1, 225:9
ran 55:24, 154:7
range 122:11
Rasansky 233:21
rate 47:2, 67:12, 75:24,
81:21
rates 46:20, 47:22, 47:24,
145:20
rather 17:4, 111:14, 111:16,
187:5
Ravi 1:37, 7:8
Ray 7:2, 29:25, 30:2, 47:4,
50:11
RAYMOND 2:26
Re-direct 238:11, 238:14,
238:20
reach 9:3, 27:4, 61:6, 72:11,
81:23, 155:5, 170:20, 170:24,
175:6, 176:22, 212:3, 226:18
reachable 163:18
reached 67:25, 145:15,
155:8, 186:11, 190:1, 190:2
reaching 44:6
reacted 174:6, 174:14
reaction 174:7
read 22:17, 156:25, 206:4
reading 62:14
Ready 25:13, 116:17,
173:20, 225:20
Reagan 133:10, 133:11
Real 81:19, 181:8
reality 23:25, 24:12
realize 53:1, 68:3, 110:24,
142:19, 189:3
Really 34:21, 38:3, 66:23,
89:23, 96:16, 112:18, 128:24,
134:1, 144:13, 158:23,
166:15, 175:11, 177:21,
180:4, 187:16, 195:13,
195:23, 197:13, 202:13,
203:15, 206:11, 216:19,
217:11, 220:2, 220:21, 228:7,
228:12, 228:13
realm 54:17
reason 13:10, 15:7, 28:13,
52:4, 52:6, 52:22, 98:12,
99:3, 152:10, 155:17, 155:18,
157:7, 161:17, 163:21, 175:3
reasonable 43:13, 48:6,
50:7, 58:8, 178:13, 192:2,
208:17
reasonableness 45:15,
49:19, 94:24
reasonably 48:23, 56:17
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 265
USCA5 5244
reasons 15:8, 125:22,
153:13, 159:6, 222:20, 236:7
recall 33:7, 33:9, 33:17,
34:22, 40:25, 42:16, 42:18,
42:22, 53:18, 53:23, 54:15,
54:19, 57:16, 62:13, 73:5,
77:24, 82:15, 82:19, 86:7,
90:23, 90:25, 98:25, 130:2,
132:13, 153:5, 153:17,
153:18, 156:7, 156:15,
157:24, 158:5, 158:7, 158:9,
170:13, 182:23, 197:7,
201:24, 215:6
receive 63:14, 67:14, 101:7,
128:10, 138:21, 140:6, 154:5,
180:2
received 9:11, 18:12, 59:2,
67:13, 70:20, 71:2, 71:4,
76:1, 101:14, 132:10, 192:21,
192:22, 216:25, 217:7
Receiverships 25:23
receiving 132:22
recent 204:20
recently 52:12, 139:2,
156:16
Recess 116:16, 237:18
recognize 104:21, 151:3,
168:20, 171:21
recollection 34:17, 68:19,
89:16, 107:21, 129:23
recommend 127:19, 140:19,
168:3, 204:1
recommendation 13:25,
14:9, 60:5, 140:11, 178:23,
180:4
recommendations 59:24,
188:2, 237:7
recommended 122:24,
127:20, 140:5
recommending 168:2
reconsider 203:22
reconsideration 202:10
reconvene 116:14
record 10:1, 12:22, 16:20,
18:7, 20:12, 22:16, 22:17,
24:14, 31:23, 43:5, 43:15,
53:13, 53:14, 62:14, 62:15,
64:9, 82:8, 83:9, 84:6, 117:9,
143:19, 209:9, 230:2, 230:8,
230:25, 231:19, 231:24,
232:16
records 43:3, 45:11, 45:22,
83:9, 122:23, 123:4, 123:6,
132:7, 132:10, 133:8, 133:15,
138:6
recover 176:1, 181:5, 201:1
recovering 200:9
REDIRECT 50:14, 62:6,
85:14, 114:13
redo 6:20
reduce 67:11, 75:20
refereed 118:20
reference 17:20, 161:6,
161:7, 161:8, 180:3
references 172:11
referred 80:6, 133:24
referring 83:20, 162:9
refers 170:7
reflect 43:3, 43:15
reflected 45:20, 46:18, 134:3
refrain 58:4, 234:7
Refresh 178:20
refuse 232:11, 232:20,
232:21
refused 93:15
regard 5:11, 8:17, 16:17,
16:19, 17:2, 29:14, 29:19,
42:4, 42:21, 45:18, 47:18,
47:22, 58:6, 76:14, 77:19,
83:11, 99:23, 102:11, 130:24,
131:15, 188:4, 196:1, 208:18,
213:23
regarding 17:19, 80:19,
131:7, 170:4
regime 128:10
regular 79:8, 148:15
regularly 147:3, 153:3, 153:6
reimburse 4:21
reimbursed 142:2, 142:8
reimbursement 6:9, 9:8,
10:15
relate 183:8
related 137:22, 143:11,
144:15, 232:19
relating 183:24, 183:25
relationship 94:1, 226:8,
236:25
release 222:3
released 131:20
releases 222:15, 223:14,
224:18
Relevance 61:24, 131:4
relevant 10:8
relief 30:7
reluctant 217:20
relying 223:17
remain 114:21, 143:8
remainder 114:22
remained 8:19
remaining 192:14
remedy 21:17, 26:18, 27:24,
217:21
remember 12:18, 40:24,
70:17, 76:24, 106:9, 129:21,
159:7, 159:22, 162:17, 163:7,
170:11, 171:22, 187:21,
199:20, 199:21, 203:1, 203:9,
232:10
remembered 151:15
remind 209:20
removal 146:22
removed 200:16
removing 161:14
rendering 199:2
rendition 27:23, 28:11
renew 105:4, 121:2
Reno 117:20
reorganized 52:13
repatriated 219:12
repatriating 159:9
repeat 199:9
repeatedly 129:20, 154:2,
167:1
replace 79:25, 87:13, 98:16,
99:8
replaced 87:9, 87:16
replaces 215:21
replied 106:19
reply 106:17, 107:6
report 13:25, 14:9, 17:22,
18:1, 18:5, 22:12, 128:5,
128:10, 178:23, 180:4, 188:1,
197:1, 213:12, 213:13
Reported 3:14
REPORTER 3:15, 7:18,
239:4, 239:17
represent 11:21, 14:21,
25:11, 37:17, 37:24, 48:17,
48:19, 64:20, 66:6, 74:14,
78:16, 78:21, 79:13, 79:16,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 266
USCA5 5245
113:9, 144:5, 144:7, 145:19,
162:1, 175:25, 190:8, 209:7,
226:3, 226:6, 226:10, 232:19
representation 9:12, 11:3,
12:3, 37:18, 63:16, 65:3,
69:3, 70:11, 82:17, 98:21,
109:10, 113:18, 113:19,
114:2, 144:14, 226:14
representations 60:10, 61:7,
63:24, 158:6, 158:7, 223:16,
223:19
representative 7:17, 224:11
represented 27:11, 40:18,
64:21, 65:6, 78:17, 83:17,
93:20, 98:5, 142:20, 142:21,
144:3, 144:10, 144:18, 170:5,
172:13, 185:25, 195:1, 195:2,
195:12, 198:20, 211:9, 227:5,
227:7, 227:8
representing 4:24, 10:16,
10:18, 10:22, 11:6, 11:14,
11:16, 65:5, 67:20, 78:8,
83:23, 90:14, 93:19, 95:9,
97:14, 105:20, 113:1, 113:4,
145:14, 165:12, 173:19,
209:15, 215:12
represents 183:6, 184:4
request 4:21, 9:16, 10:1,
25:18, 26:23, 26:24, 27:1,
28:22, 145:19, 180:25,
200:15, 200:18, 216:25,
217:1
requested 5:24, 45:16,
115:6, 144:24, 174:19
requesting 78:6
requests 88:17, 89:7
require 33:11
required 23:10, 33:23,
35:12, 177:11, 192:10,
192:19
requirement 226:22
requirements 224:1, 224:3
requires 27:21
researched 181:7
reset 170:15
resign 78:6
resignation 113:11
resigned 14:7, 14:8, 14:23,
67:20, 77:24, 78:5, 89:20
resigning 14:7, 14:18, 161:8,
222:14
resolution 66:2
resolve 40:7, 47:4, 54:18,
196:16, 202:12, 206:11,
237:12
resolved 179:9, 191:17,
191:19, 192:12, 201:12,
201:14, 202:13
resolving 208:6, 209:13
respect 10:18, 10:23, 11:4,
11:6, 11:17, 20:19, 22:9,
59:21, 88:14, 91:18, 105:2,
136:11, 200:9, 206:2, 223:21,
224:16, 229:9, 233:3, 233:6,
233:9, 233:12, 233:15,
233:18, 233:21, 236:13
respected 198:11
respectfully 21:20
respecting 77:15
respond 18:18, 18:19,
108:11
responded 174:21
Respondent 16:6, 182:2,
238:38
responding 147:15
response 9:23, 10:10, 16:17,
18:13, 34:8, 209:19
responsibility 55:13, 85:6
responsible 73:9, 93:6
responsive 147:19, 147:20
rest 115:12
restraining 146:18, 157:8,
200:13
result 95:7, 101:8, 114:16,
119:24, 138:1, 198:2, 200:24
resulted 163:25
results 84:4
retain 5:4
retained 5:6, 66:5, 131:20
retainer 67:9, 70:9, 145:21,
145:25, 148:16, 154:9
retaining 60:23
retention 70:6
retired 117:13
retirement 118:13
retrospect 95:6
return 158:16
returned 215:23
returns 59:4, 91:8, 91:13,
91:17, 92:2, 92:3, 219:22
reurge 10:13
Revenue 58:5, 59:2, 159:17,
219:23
review 18:13, 32:18, 34:22,
38:10, 55:4, 123:6, 126:19
reviewed 45:23, 122:22
revised 116:20
Richard 2:28, 7:2
rights 174:2, 181:5
ripe 18:14
rise 133:16, 222:6
risk 188:21, 193:14, 193:17
Road 97:1, 133:14, 222:16
Robert 194:8
role 53:6, 103:15, 196:12,
196:13, 196:23, 197:7, 198:1,
198:12
roles 196:22
room 114:22, 138:1, 199:21
Roossien112 238:18
Roossien38 238:10
Roossien76 238:13
Rorschach 122:2, 122:10,
135:23, 136:11, 139:23
rosa 14:11
Ross 1:32
roughly 98:6, 119:4, 187:20
round 72:21
Royal 1:21
rubber 88:16, 99:3, 99:15
rubber-stamping 99:4
Rule 10:20, 18:19, 20:13,
24:18, 27:13, 27:16, 29:23,
30:12, 30:14, 30:19, 30:20,
30:21, 31:3, 31:4, 31:11,
39:10, 178:19, 178:20
Rules 10:21, 48:24, 181:6
ruling 25:18, 28:23
run 74:10, 74:25, 91:4,
92:15, 118:11, 224:4
Running 23:19, 55:15,
99:20, 118:11, 204:15
rurbanik@munsch.com
2:35
Ryan 194:23
< S >
S. 2:2, 4:6
s/cassidi 239:14
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 267
USCA5 5246
sabotaged 14:20, 15:8
sad 209:2
sake 27:1
sanctionable 24:19, 79:18
sanctioned 219:8
satisfied 35:20, 35:23
satisfy 49:23
Saturday 79:5, 79:8, 186:5
Save 180:11, 180:13
savings 214:10
saw 14:16, 22:10, 85:25,
136:9, 146:7, 163:3, 174:17,
180:6, 196:13, 228:8, 228:9
saying 14:2, 56:19, 56:20,
80:8, 85:21, 120:20, 128:17,
132:1, 147:15, 153:18,
153:21, 157:9, 177:10,
177:19, 189:25, 216:10,
219:13, 221:5, 223:25
says 17:9, 26:7, 35:11,
123:18, 133:13, 152:5, 167:4,
167:6, 178:20, 187:9, 188:2,
205:25, 209:4
scarce 154:2
schedule 19:2
scheduled 13:6, 79:11,
106:25, 107:4, 179:22
Schepps 2:16, 2:17, 4:9,
12:3, 15:1, 15:6, 15:11, 17:8,
18:16, 19:18, 19:22, 20:2,
25:10, 115:11, 226:5
schesnin@hotmail.com
2:43
school 118:9
Schurig 59:4, 59:8, 59:9,
74:10, 91:5, 91:7, 91:17,
92:15, 145:17, 145:19,
168:17, 168:23, 169:1, 169:6,
170:3, 170:5, 171:8, 171:25,
172:5, 172:20, 195:11
Science 117:18, 117:20
scientific 118:21
scorched 153:15, 154:10
screaming 220:20
screening 122:6, 133:25,
135:15
screwed 70:23
se 136:1
seal 9:10
search 98:24
seasoned 173:25
Second 35:3, 59:20, 72:12,
106:8, 106:24, 107:17,
151:10, 151:14, 152:11,
152:14, 155:20, 164:9, 188:2,
200:8, 215:18
secondly 49:3
secreting 157:14
section 195:16
secure 164:3
seeing 35:10, 120:11, 123:8
seek 15:2, 84:2, 84:13,
127:25, 212:20
seeking 51:25, 86:6, 86:12,
88:14, 88:15, 100:23
seem 44:17, 55:8, 81:1,
119:18, 126:18, 161:16,
189:23, 191:15, 198:8,
225:20
seemed 82:4, 122:8, 127:15,
197:14
Seems 123:13, 139:1,
147:18, 188:6
seen 21:3, 21:5, 22:22,
53:15, 103:7, 103:12, 103:13,
120:1, 120:3, 138:6, 167:7,
180:10, 188:6, 188:14,
188:15, 208:24, 226:24,
227:9, 227:18
segue 213:10
Seizures 133:22
select 86:19
selected 86:20
self-employed 102:21
self-interest 228:13
selling 214:22
send 7:20, 72:14, 147:3,
152:25
sense 87:4, 87:5, 87:12,
87:15, 104:16, 138:18,
138:20, 206:5
sense. 87:12
sensing 47:19
sent 11:14, 56:22, 66:15,
72:9, 80:12, 81:19, 106:8,
106:11, 128:11, 150:14,
151:6, 151:8, 151:9, 153:1,
168:1
sentiments 226:13
separate 36:8, 36:13, 36:20,
36:25, 67:19, 107:1, 130:15
separated 81:16
separately 107:4
September 13:9, 37:10,
41:1, 43:1, 77:10, 95:25,
96:1, 96:4, 164:21, 179:23,
189:9, 189:11
sequestered 201:7
sequitur 160:1
serial 226:22
serious 126:17, 126:21,
126:22, 127:7, 176:15,
176:24, 177:22, 180:17,
180:22, 180:24, 206:7,
207:16, 217:21
serve 118:23, 198:6
served 118:24
Service 60:21, 98:10,
159:17, 219:23
services 69:4, 76:3, 79:3,
81:15, 84:15, 100:10, 100:15,
140:22, 142:1, 174:11,
185:23, 187:11, 199:2, 221:7,
224:23, 226:20
set 9:22, 14:11, 21:12, 36:3,
46:9, 46:20, 68:23, 72:2,
75:3, 100:4, 100:22, 159:11,
160:25, 161:9, 163:9, 163:13,
164:7, 169:13, 177:12,
177:13, 185:1, 193:4
sets 16:17, 169:9
setting 126:16, 160:2
settle 13:18, 23:8, 23:9,
37:4, 44:14, 44:19, 81:19,
186:15, 187:6, 212:15
settled 13:17, 23:7, 36:12,
37:5, 44:11, 84:17, 186:20,
189:17, 192:14, 194:21,
196:19, 212:8, 212:9, 220:24
settlements 166:6
settling 189:16
seven 13:6, 75:9, 75:11,
191:15
seventeen 152:5
seventy-five 145:21, 145:24,
149:14, 154:5
Several 16:24, 26:15, 34:20,
34:25, 38:20, 38:23, 64:18,
68:21, 69:1, 69:5, 69:25,
74:6, 79:2, 79:10, 81:2,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 268
USCA5 5247
81:18, 82:16, 90:1, 102:21,
120:19, 189:9
Severe 127:18, 130:8, 130:9,
208:5
severely 122:13
SEWELL 1:44, 2:3
sheets 46:3
Sherman 2:24, 7:3, 7:6,
30:19, 52:10, 52:11, 86:8,
191:20, 212:6, 222:7, 222:23,
225:4, 225:6, 237:14
shield 175:22
shielding 170:15
shocked 153:13
shoes 196:21
short 16:19, 22:3, 188:17
shorter 101:24
shorthanded 118:16
shortly 130:21
shoulder 81:16, 151:25
shouldn't 219:8
show 21:22, 45:3, 107:23,
149:8, 151:2, 151:13, 152:16,
153:17, 157:19, 167:6, 168:6,
168:19, 171:20, 219:7, 222:6
showed 149:5
showing 28:1, 122:8, 149:1,
153:24, 184:17
shown 239:6
Sid 37:18
side 16:7, 55:19, 75:1, 81:2,
84:18, 183:17, 184:5, 186:18,
189:25, 208:14, 229:6
sides 55:14, 106:4
Sidney 2:39, 2:40, 102:3,
238:16
sign 12:21, 33:23, 33:25,
34:5, 34:20, 35:1, 41:6, 41:9,
58:10, 202:22, 202:24, 203:3,
218:14, 220:20
signatories 234:23
signature 12:20, 40:22,
41:17, 41:20, 41:24, 86:3
signatures 40:23, 41:4,
57:19, 86:1
signed 12:9, 12:23, 35:12,
35:16, 35:18, 38:20, 38:21,
40:19, 41:7, 41:16, 65:25,
69:22, 86:1, 86:3, 90:3,
176:25, 177:5, 190:12,
203:16, 203:17, 203:18,
207:6, 207:10, 207:21, 208:9
significant 137:8, 138:3,
171:9
signing 38:22, 41:14
signs 207:12, 218:13
similar 64:3, 129:19, 221:3
simply 184:16, 187:6, 235:22
sit 47:1
site 162:22, 162:24, 163:3
sitting 30:13, 73:5, 204:19,
207:11, 207:17
situation 21:3, 74:9, 74:12,
101:4, 101:6, 122:25, 127:2,
129:16, 169:4, 169:6, 170:19,
188:8, 198:3, 208:24, 209:3,
235:24
situations 96:24, 104:19,
104:22, 188:15, 197:24
six 22:3, 137:5, 148:10,
212:17, 212:25, 219:2
sixteen 166:7, 166:8
sixty 75:19, 148:17
sixty-page 46:9
skeptical 66:4
slim 73:24
small 187:4, 189:22, 219:4
SMU 118:10
sociopathy 134:21
sold 193:1
sole 157:5, 163:12
solely 20:23
solve 219:10
somebody 81:18, 82:23,
89:8, 115:14, 149:7, 178:24,
179:19, 203:13, 209:1,
231:24, 237:8
somehow 224:18
Someone 12:21, 79:22,
88:16, 88:18, 89:2, 93:12,
96:4, 96:18, 99:3, 99:8,
99:15, 103:5, 127:4, 127:5,
127:20, 129:17, 135:9, 141:6,
184:17, 198:10
sometime 9:23
sometimes 83:25, 145:2,
190:19, 226:9
somewhat 41:13, 44:6, 55:5,
107:20
Somewhere 14:22, 103:9,
126:5, 150:7, 164:15, 229:14
soon 29:11, 152:18, 226:6
Sorry 36:21, 42:24, 43:2,
67:3, 71:3, 71:10, 71:19,
86:10, 100:3, 116:9, 120:11,
128:2, 132:15, 136:23,
149:16, 156:12, 160:6,
160:10, 161:13, 163:5, 173:4,
183:6
sort 53:19, 55:24, 69:16,
86:17, 102:25, 118:5, 118:22,
121:23, 122:25, 129:19,
164:2, 165:4, 183:21, 196:17,
212:5, 220:1, 227:3, 227:13
sorts 15:13
sought 46:1
sounds 11:5, 127:1, 127:2,
127:22, 152:16, 167:19
South 86:19, 86:21, 99:12,
99:15
Southern 75:25, 117:13
space 130:23
speaking 93:5, 107:19,
109:1, 110:4
special 13:22, 14:24, 18:5,
26:18, 103:16, 105:1, 196:6,
196:7, 196:10, 196:23, 197:7
specific 30:7, 68:22, 96:2,
153:5, 164:12, 165:15,
166:17, 181:14, 181:15
specifically 11:16, 25:24,
68:12, 68:21, 70:6, 74:21,
93:15, 106:9, 155:10, 156:7,
156:15, 164:4, 187:22
specifics 68:8
Speculation 49:11, 92:6,
95:16, 98:19, 179:11
speed 65:13, 166:3
spell 7:10
spend 96:7, 174:19
spending 72:5, 73:10,
165:20
spent 20:20, 21:21, 45:19,
45:20, 46:11, 55:10, 72:10,
73:21, 73:25, 74:3, 75:20,
153:25, 185:20
spirit 17:14
split 236:23
spoke 4:15, 203:10
Spoken 103:12
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 269
USCA5 5248
squandered 201:7
Stacy 157:25
stamp 88:16, 99:3, 99:16
Stan 14:8, 14:20, 62:4, 111:2,
111:5, 111:9, 111:10, 112:7,
203:13
stand 16:11, 98:19, 135:15,
142:17, 162:10, 206:4
standardized 120:4, 122:1
standing 40:3
standpoint 119:15
Star 33:24, 41:10, 41:11,
41:12, 42:4, 42:9, 51:5, 51:8,
224:16
stark 127:15
start 17:23, 76:10, 120:11,
186:23
started 13:17, 65:16, 76:4,
103:16, 132:25, 139:4,
145:13, 154:8
Starting 38:1, 38:2, 69:17
State 25:5, 27:12, 31:23,
55:3, 64:9, 83:6, 108:23,
117:8, 119:23, 121:4, 127:16,
127:18, 133:20, 143:18,
146:11, 146:23, 188:22,
200:12, 203:1, 205:1, 212:17,
222:18, 223:9, 232:16
stated 44:23, 68:22, 70:6,
72:10, 81:13, 96:14, 96:16,
125:22, 156:16, 212:23
statement 22:8, 25:16, 29:7,
44:8, 44:21, 47:11, 51:12,
52:1, 52:2, 53:21, 56:25,
58:11, 80:21, 99:2, 150:9
statements 38:4, 162:15,
182:8, 204:4, 208:8
STATES 1:1, 3:15, 5:3,
155:8, 157:6, 159:13, 162:6,
162:7, 162:23, 163:15,
163:18, 164:3, 165:9, 169:22,
169:25, 170:16, 170:18,
174:22, 175:5, 175:8, 175:15,
175:18, 175:23, 176:3,
176:10, 176:20, 176:23,
177:9, 239:11, 239:17
stating 62:13, 158:9
Statistical 134:8
status 77:22, 77:24, 78:2,
78:4, 82:9, 131:2, 218:18
statutes 201:3
stay 10:10, 11:8, 12:22, 16:6,
18:24, 79:2
stenotypy 239:5
step 26:19, 143:12, 158:13,
207:15, 207:16, 208:12,
235:9, 235:11
stepping 196:21
steps 126:15, 127:8, 208:17
Steven 194:25
stipulate 53:22, 54:5
stipulation 33:21, 34:14,
54:7
stock 213:22, 214:4, 214:6,
214:11, 214:15, 214:16
stop 143:11, 147:9, 148:18,
165:11, 215:18, 217:16,
217:19, 217:21, 217:24,
218:7, 219:19, 219:21, 220:5,
220:6, 227:13, 227:21, 228:5
stopped 48:2
stopping 48:1, 215:8
story 229:7
strategic 175:3
Street 1:39, 1:45, 2:4, 2:32,
3:16, 149:8
stressful 122:25
stretch 187:11
stricken 125:2
Strike 15:2, 17:19, 17:24,
17:25, 18:4, 18:10, 97:22,
125:1, 125:21
strip 28:15
strongest 48:23
strongly 159:2
struck 123:4
structure 165:24, 166:13,
169:21, 182:20, 182:25,
183:4, 183:6, 184:10
structures 58:6
struggled 187:1
stuck 11:25
stunned 229:3, 229:4
style 235:14
sub 14:11
subject 15:20, 27:6, 27:13,
27:17, 59:17, 110:15, 115:11,
119:15, 124:9, 131:21,
159:16, 163:14, 175:17,
218:9
subjected 64:5
subjective 153:12
submit 70:8, 105:5, 235:4
submitted 18:1, 50:4, 73:6,
80:21, 142:5, 148:25, 170:17,
175:15, 176:20, 188:10,
218:4, 221:20, 230:24,
234:20, 235:7
Subsequent 33:5, 34:9,
34:11, 61:8, 75:21, 88:15,
92:17, 98:3, 100:14, 199:25
Subsequently 60:11, 67:25,
69:24, 96:17, 154:23, 220:8
substantial 81:21, 83:18,
83:22, 84:3, 84:13, 85:3,
100:24, 110:5, 124:4, 188:17,
188:23, 188:25, 193:13,
193:24, 194:1, 194:18, 195:8,
195:15, 195:19, 200:7,
201:17, 205:19, 205:21,
210:12, 211:2, 211:23, 212:5,
220:14, 222:17, 224:24,
236:1
substantially 60:9, 75:14,
191:18
substitute 111:13, 111:15,
194:5
subvert 216:19
subverted 216:20
succeed 81:24, 85:3
succeeds 140:12
success 49:17, 73:23
successful 48:1
successfully 196:19
successors 93:11, 93:16
sudden 165:3
sue 74:1, 205:1
sued 14:16, 190:6
suffered 120:21, 139:5
suffering 130:5, 137:22
sufficient 76:23, 105:12,
181:23, 192:22, 211:14
sufficiently 63:4
suggest 57:18, 142:2,
199:13, 231:15
suggested 115:8
suggestion 20:25
suggests 188:3
suicidal 122:15, 126:14,
126:17, 127:5, 138:14,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 270
USCA5 5249
138:16, 138:17
Suicide 118:25, 126:23,
127:19, 138:19
Suite 1:32, 1:39, 1:45, 2:4,
2:11, 2:41, 2:47
suits 212:17
summarize 9:25
summary 16:19, 57:22, 58:9
summer 38:19
Summers 169:10
sums 237:1
Sunday 55:10, 186:5
supervision 206:18, 211:4
supervisory 200:21
support 50:4, 50:12, 105:7,
215:7, 216:6, 236:20
suppose 176:14
supposed 11:13, 14:20,
67:19, 69:2, 69:13, 79:9,
101:13, 116:25, 146:21,
203:6, 218:23, 219:1, 219:14,
224:10
surely 13:9, 154:25, 158:16
surprise 77:21, 78:24,
171:23
surprised 8:19, 19:14
surprising 94:10
suspect 17:6, 205:24
sustain 49:9, 124:11
Sustained 105:9, 123:20,
141:22
swear 142:17
swinging 227:13
Swiss 223:2
Switzerland 223:1
Sworn 30:4, 31:19, 63:18,
102:2, 142:18, 232:9
system 108:24, 129:12
< T >
table 115:22, 116:1, 116:5,
116:7
tables 115:19
talked 34:9, 63:25, 98:24,
124:15, 137:17, 185:21,
225:15
talks 188:21, 189:6
tap 82:23
Taub 195:10, 195:18
taught 118:7, 118:12
tax 59:4, 91:8, 91:12, 91:16,
92:2, 92:3, 159:11, 219:22,
223:6
Taylor 88:13, 92:23, 93:5,
93:15, 93:17, 93:20, 99:4,
99:6, 99:9, 194:17, 233:15
teach 118:16
teaching 118:8
team 24:2, 24:15, 24:24
Tech 4:14
technically 195:14, 200:11
techniques 122:3
technology 197:17
telephone 113:7
tells 139:1
temperament 174:7
temporary 146:18, 200:13
ten 15:7, 35:8, 76:24, 98:4,
116:11, 119:1, 152:6, 186:4,
188:14, 198:15
tend 121:16
tendencies 127:6
tendered 9:21
term 104:13, 104:15, 128:23,
130:17
terminated 13:22, 82:12
terms 77:15, 79:15, 101:14,
115:12, 125:15, 145:22,
193:15, 195:14, 198:7,
225:21
terrible 21:17
terribly 228:9
test 44:24, 45:15, 122:1,
135:15, 135:23, 136:11,
139:23
testified 81:11, 92:10, 94:16,
119:2, 125:4, 125:7, 131:8,
136:19, 143:15, 157:12,
157:16, 207:5, 208:19
testifies 110:20
testify 58:18, 58:21, 102:12,
102:16, 110:14, 119:14,
119:18, 119:22, 120:25,
121:3, 121:19, 123:19,
139:12, 146:25, 157:10,
165:16, 166:5, 183:4, 210:23,
226:17, 229:5, 230:3, 230:9
testifying 68:18, 157:25,
158:2
testimony 10:12, 30:2, 30:6,
30:9, 75:12, 90:22, 116:2,
119:17, 121:7, 121:17, 123:3,
127:15, 138:23, 139:25,
145:24, 153:2, 157:19, 160:9,
162:19, 166:25, 183:5,
184:20, 195:5, 208:22, 217:7,
217:16, 218:24, 226:18,
230:1, 231:12
testing 136:8
tests 120:4, 122:5, 122:9,
122:14, 122:23, 135:25,
136:15
Tetford 31:1, 116:10, 117:4,
117:5, 117:10, 117:11,
119:17, 119:21, 120:1,
121:19, 121:23, 123:11,
123:22, 124:15, 127:13,
128:7, 128:16, 129:10,
140:16, 141:25, 142:3, 142:7,
238:21
TEXAS 1:2, 2:48, 3:11, 3:17,
64:15, 75:25, 239:18
text 187:8
Thanksgiving 202:25
theft 174:11, 221:7
themselves 77:20, 84:11,
84:12, 102:13, 209:2
therapist 236:25, 237:2,
237:3
therapy 229:18
thereafter 100:8
thinking 207:11, 216:23,
227:20
Third 27:20, 50:18, 72:17,
215:24
thirty 69:13, 75:17, 76:17,
164:1, 167:16, 174:12
Thirty-five 104:10, 118:19
Thomas 9:12, 14:7, 43:6,
62:4, 78:20, 79:25, 80:4,
80:5, 80:12, 169:17, 202:5,
202:16, 212:20
thousands 222:5, 222:10
threatened 137:3
three-month 148:14
thrombocytopenia 133:21
throughout 212:4
Thursday 235:7
ties 201:20
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 271
USCA5 5250
timely 67:13
timing 70:16, 70:22, 93:11
Title 178:19
titled 50:17
today 4:18, 7:23, 19:5, 19:7,
19:9, 19:10, 19:11, 29:10,
37:20, 37:21, 112:5, 112:8,
114:9, 121:13, 137:22, 146:8,
148:24, 162:10, 167:12,
169:15, 184:20, 217:7,
217:16, 228:8
together 48:21, 161:16,
182:18, 183:22, 196:18
Tom 4:13, 62:3
tomorrow 211:13, 213:4
took 26:8, 26:13, 34:20,
90:2, 179:21, 239:5
top 42:2, 184:2
total 37:11, 66:14, 109:2,
152:3, 152:9, 191:14, 213:20,
214:24
totality 210:7
totally 28:8, 176:4, 216:16,
229:9
toward 44:4, 186:13
towards 164:15, 199:22,
226:19
town 73:25
train 11:25, 161:19, 173:8
transactions 166:9
transcribed 239:5
transcript 157:15, 158:16,
236:23, 239:7, 239:9
transfer 33:13, 33:15, 34:16,
87:25, 88:2, 158:20, 160:11,
162:20, 177:8
transferring 177:20
transfers 160:5
transmittal 17:19, 17:25,
18:4, 180:3
transparency 5:11
trauma 120:21, 120:23
traveled 64:18
treat 237:9
treatable 134:19
treating 132:8, 132:10,
132:19
treatment 128:5, 128:6,
128:10, 138:21, 140:3, 140:6,
140:8, 140:11, 140:12,
140:18, 141:7
treaty 175:1, 175:4
Tremont 2:41
trial 27:13, 119:4, 135:15
Trickly 62:3
tried 49:20, 60:15, 95:2,
159:10, 202:22, 208:5, 209:6,
211:5, 227:11, 227:13, 228:7
triggering 184:24
Trinity 133:13
tripped 139:22
troubled 54:20
true 37:3, 40:6, 48:5, 56:2,
67:13, 124:17, 124:18, 135:2,
153:14, 176:19, 182:8,
232:24, 234:2, 234:6, 234:11,
234:15, 234:19, 236:16,
239:7
trustees 86:24, 87:3, 194:6
trusts 11:2, 41:5, 41:7, 41:9,
41:12, 41:13, 165:13, 165:15,
166:11, 184:18, 185:2
try 65:17, 72:3, 74:25, 81:3,
84:12, 140:9, 163:17, 181:24,
196:16, 227:21
trying 21:16, 24:1, 35:1,
40:24, 54:15, 57:18, 81:23,
129:20, 137:21, 147:17,
147:21, 158:3, 165:7, 165:23,
166:2, 181:15, 187:5, 196:18,
209:7, 209:10, 211:1, 211:3,
211:4, 217:25, 218:3, 220:10,
220:18
Tucker 109:25
Tuesday 65:2
turn 101:5, 110:21, 220:8
turned 19:23, 67:12, 100:6,
212:18
turning 212:21
turnover 93:14
twelve 14:22
Twenty 24:9, 66:17, 66:21,
66:22, 72:19, 73:3, 73:4,
75:12, 75:22, 76:16, 126:6,
167:22, 181:22, 212:12,
229:15
Twenty-five 97:12, 97:13,
160:20, 174:9, 219:5, 219:14,
224:7
twenty-four 75:9, 228:24,
229:2
twenty-hour 110:21
Twenty-nine 184:23
twenty-one 73:1
twenty-two 66:12, 67:7,
67:14, 71:2, 71:4, 75:21,
100:5
twenty. 229:14
twice 106:13, 119:5, 120:3,
151:9
two-year 24:5
two. 117:1, 211:24, 229:13
TX 1:33, 1:46, 2:5, 2:12,
2:19, 2:33, 2:42, 3:4
type 163:16, 214:12
types 125:11
typically 65:8
< U >
Ufa 2:29, 7:2
Ufotumana 2:29, 7:2, 7:5
ultimate 203:2, 209:7
Ultimately 67:14, 86:19,
93:1, 96:18, 97:1, 182:17,
216:9, 221:22
unable 163:24
unanimous 91:13
unaware 20:13
unclear 222:16
uncooperative 108:7
underlying 129:21, 129:25,
134:2, 183:23
understanding 17:3, 51:23,
57:21, 65:19, 67:22, 69:12,
78:22, 80:23, 91:7, 91:15,
91:16, 92:5, 92:8, 99:14,
105:18, 119:14, 153:7, 170:2,
204:8, 223:25, 235:21
understands 225:10
Understood 22:11, 40:7,
91:3, 97:23, 106:22, 160:1,
185:3, 207:3, 217:9, 217:10,
229:23
undertaken 225:6
undo 190:10
unexpected 212:6
unfortunate 207:19, 208:10,
209:17, 226:24, 226:25
Unfortunately 61:11
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 272
USCA5 5251
unhappy 153:24, 154:4
uniquely 197:23
UNITED 1:1, 3:15, 155:7,
157:6, 159:13, 162:6, 162:7,
162:23, 163:15, 163:18,
164:3, 165:9, 169:22, 169:25,
170:16, 170:18, 174:22,
175:5, 175:8, 175:15, 175:18,
175:23, 176:2, 176:9, 176:20,
176:23, 177:8, 239:11,
239:17
University 117:13, 117:20,
118:3
unlawful 156:20, 157:3
unless 18:23
unnecessary 199:23
Unpaid 83:18, 85:6, 191:4,
191:13, 192:17, 196:3,
210:13
unprofessional 24:19
unreasonable 51:21, 56:23
unrelated 158:15
Unresponsive 108:9, 108:10
unrung 219:24
unsecured 101:6, 192:7,
192:8, 192:25, 193:19,
193:20
unsuccessful 228:6
unsuccessfully 227:11
until 30:2, 37:19, 54:4,
55:10, 69:9, 75:16, 78:25,
80:16, 113:16, 115:10,
116:25, 118:12, 119:13,
121:6, 146:7, 150:13, 177:14,
188:10, 228:8
unusual 66:1
update 213:18
upset 129:24, 203:12
Urbanik 2:26, 7:2, 7:5, 13:3,
18:11, 18:25, 19:12, 23:14,
23:23, 23:24, 29:25, 30:2,
30:4, 30:6, 30:8, 30:9, 30:13,
49:22, 49:23, 50:3, 50:6,
50:22, 192:11, 211:22, 212:3,
218:21, 221:18, 221:23,
223:13, 223:22, 223:24,
224:17, 225:11
urged 47:19, 208:16
using 89:14, 130:17, 188:10,
214:21
USVI 219:23
utilization 70:7
utilize 69:4
utmost 27:25
utter 212:18
< V >
Vacate 1:20, 10:10, 11:8,
17:21, 18:24, 28:11, 28:24,
203:23, 217:6, 237:13
vacating 28:19
value 76:5, 81:13, 81:15,
124:19
valueless 41:19
variance 145:8
variation 133:5
various 10:1, 80:19, 170:22,
182:16, 191:12
vast 191:5
vehicle 27:15
vein 28:20
verdict 28:21, 29:1
verge 127:19
verified 60:7
versus 4:3, 26:20, 27:8,
145:9, 204:18, 227:4, 227:6,
235:15
vexatious 95:5, 95:8, 114:17,
129:17, 208:25, 215:8,
215:10, 215:14, 217:11,
217:17, 220:5, 221:6
view 24:24, 49:17, 63:19,
63:25, 74:5, 81:25, 102:9,
102:15, 142:22, 143:1,
143:13, 188:5, 190:19,
193:14, 205:3, 216:11,
224:22, 230:16
viewed 196:12, 235:19
Village 59:15, 86:9, 86:13,
87:7, 89:18, 92:23, 93:1,
94:2, 94:6, 94:7, 98:25,
165:24, 170:5, 170:6, 170:21,
172:11, 172:13, 173:6,
183:18, 184:1, 184:4, 195:12,
222:2
violated 58:14, 234:11
violation 58:20, 58:22,
219:22
violator 226:22
Virgin 58:5, 91:8
virtually 124:18, 221:24
visit 79:10
visited 228:25
Vituio 194:22
Vitullo 233:12
vocabulary 153:19, 153:22
Vogel 2:2, 4:6, 9:7, 14:24,
14:25, 30:16, 30:17, 80:22,
103:11, 104:25, 105:15,
105:25, 106:1, 107:2, 107:3,
107:17, 107:18, 108:7,
108:13, 112:19, 179:1,
179:15, 196:3, 196:13, 197:8,
198:8, 198:10, 201:24, 202:6,
203:24, 212:15, 212:24,
213:25, 215:11, 223:9,
229:21, 234:17, 237:1
void 27:22, 27:23, 28:10
Volkswagen 28:10
volume 185:23
vomiting 133:22
vs 1:9
< W >
W. 1:30
Wait 31:12, 147:10, 147:13,
159:25, 164:9
waiting 63:8, 219:20
waive 39:10, 39:12, 39:14,
63:3, 63:4, 142:25, 143:2,
143:8
waived 39:17, 39:18, 63:22,
99:22, 102:10, 102:15,
143:14, 143:15, 155:23
waiver 64:2, 64:4, 113:22
waiving 68:4
Wake 60:19
walked 80:3, 80:16
wanted 12:21, 13:11, 25:5,
25:19, 44:13, 44:14, 48:3,
49:1, 49:6, 57:6, 59:20,
65:24, 73:19, 73:20, 74:1,
74:2, 74:18, 82:22, 88:13,
88:16, 88:22, 89:2, 89:8,
96:21, 99:2, 163:22, 169:12,
171:10, 186:14, 187:11,
188:18, 190:10, 199:18,
202:7, 202:8, 202:13, 203:15,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 273
USCA5 5252
230:18
wanting 44:18
wants 211:12, 221:11,
221:12, 235:4
warned 13:23
warnings 24:8
Washington 26:20
waste 49:6, 232:2
wasted 49:5
wasting 49:7
watch 138:19
wavelength 173:14
waylaid 228:1
ways 65:6, 210:25
wearing 105:1
web 162:21, 162:22, 162:24,
163:2
week 20:20, 21:21, 24:18,
70:14, 71:14, 71:15, 72:4,
72:8, 72:10, 72:12, 72:17,
75:9, 75:11, 76:19, 128:5,
128:10, 141:6, 148:11,
189:20, 213:14, 218:11,
229:17, 229:18, 236:25
weekends 79:10, 186:2,
186:4
Weekly 70:2, 71:25, 159:3
weeks 18:15, 130:23
weight 126:13
welcome 142:14
Whatever 12:25, 92:20,
107:8, 128:6, 196:15
whatsoever 209:8
Whether 19:9, 28:24, 43:13,
45:19, 45:24, 46:10, 48:6,
61:8, 63:24, 81:12, 91:21,
91:22, 92:17, 93:17, 100:14,
107:3, 109:11, 125:20, 130:4,
132:21, 135:9, 137:21, 138:4,
151:14, 174:25, 177:21,
179:12, 187:10, 189:6,
195:14, 199:18, 200:2, 201:7,
201:13, 214:11, 220:15,
223:20, 225:8, 225:15
whoever 82:6
whole 22:18, 29:18, 126:13,
130:15, 185:1, 186:24,
189:21, 209:17
whom 16:25, 32:8, 64:23,
80:6, 196:2
whomever 53:18
wide 39:1, 122:10
wife 185:14
wiggle 217:25, 223:23
William 64:11, 116:10, 117:5,
117:10, 238:21
willing 12:14, 215:22,
225:20, 226:11
wind 146:1, 146:5
wise 127:22
wish 30:21, 53:21, 54:7,
57:9, 63:12, 107:9, 183:13
wished 99:6
wishes 12:25, 142:24, 235:3
withdraw 12:14, 15:11,
63:13, 111:12, 111:16,
111:20, 112:3, 112:4, 112:20,
146:12, 154:14, 154:20,
154:23, 155:2, 155:13,
155:16, 156:13, 158:4,
164:18, 164:23, 166:20,
168:13, 170:9, 173:11,
173:12, 181:1
withdraw. 111:14
withdrawal 17:19, 146:13,
155:3, 155:17, 155:18, 180:3
withdrawn 35:19, 48:13,
48:15, 63:16, 177:3, 188:7
withdrew 37:19, 161:10,
162:22, 163:9, 177:12, 187:9
withhold 30:2
Within 33:12, 34:15, 34:19,
70:10, 70:14, 76:19, 112:8,
130:22, 134:15, 148:12,
152:14, 152:19, 203:3,
203:19, 218:11, 235:7,
236:10
Without 25:24, 27:1, 27:21,
28:12, 28:21, 28:22, 59:5,
68:12, 91:13, 123:8, 123:18,
126:11, 147:25, 209:1,
226:20, 227:14, 232:25
witness-by-witness 102:14,
143:6
witnessed 22:1, 23:5, 25:8,
60:22, 60:25, 61:22, 189:10
witnesses 16:24, 17:3, 17:5,
24:13, 25:15, 29:7, 29:9,
29:20, 29:24, 30:11, 31:7,
39:19, 101:25, 102:11,
102:12, 114:24, 116:4,
142:21, 167:18, 207:3,
207:17, 207:18, 208:22,
226:17, 230:19
word 55:8, 55:11, 167:8,
173:24, 176:13
words 42:12, 56:16, 94:23,
121:7, 153:22, 163:13,
214:15
worked 17:11, 17:13, 34:3,
34:4, 39:11, 67:24, 72:24,
75:17, 75:23, 80:25, 129:11,
159:10, 169:18, 185:4,
203:14, 208:13, 210:9, 211:7
working 17:10, 21:11, 32:13,
84:23, 92:21, 94:13, 132:8,
153:25, 162:16, 164:6,
212:24
works 205:2
world 23:25, 24:10, 24:12,
149:6
worlds 23:25
Worldwide 28:10
worn 103:21
worried 221:4
worry 237:16
worse 139:2, 139:3, 217:8,
217:10
worth 75:12, 75:14
wrap 226:5, 226:11
wrapped 212:25, 213:1
wreck 81:15, 82:9
writing 69:22, 103:5, 148:19,
202:15
written 144:20, 144:25,
145:3, 145:8, 152:22, 152:24
wrongdoing 173:20
wrongfully 59:2
wrote 24:17
Wynne 1:44, 2:3, 9:9
< Y >
Year 7:8, 42:17, 132:13,
132:14, 152:25, 154:7, 185:4,
197:8, 197:14
years 13:5, 20:14, 20:15,
21:2, 21:4, 76:23, 76:24,
97:10, 97:13, 104:10, 119:1,
120:19, 131:24, 184:23,
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 274
USCA5 5253
208:23, 222:1, 224:7, 228:24
yesterday 4:16, 6:4, 9:12,
60:18
yourself 98:14, 158:19,
168:22
< Z >
zero 82:4
Zero. 81:25, 227:18
CASSIDI L. CASEY, CSR, 214-354-3139
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
BARON - DIRECT - MACPETE 275
USCA5 5254
